To all 16v Turbo owners

[Jimbob]

Hey, i was just wondering who has a MK II 16vT golf?
Cheers, James

[stealthwagon]

i have one [:)]

[Rallye_Will]

soon hopefully...still collecting the parts

[madmk4]

Me old man had one.
Bloody. Nightmare.

SOunded nice though... When it wasn't breaking down or falling apart.

[octane]

Theres a forum all about turbos! use it [;)]

[vwturbo]

Me and 4 yrs of perfect reliability,but that would be expected with a Stealth prepared 16v turbo. [;)]

[stealthwagon]

Me old man had one.
Bloody. Nightmare.

SOunded nice though... When it wasn't breaking down or falling apart.
your dads could'nt of been a well sorted example of one?

[Jimbob]

what sorta bhp are you all running? vwturbo, what 0-60 does a 250bhp mk II have?
slim, are you doing the conversion yourself or sending it away etc? and what about all you others, is there a lot of work involved in converting the engine? what sort of internals would i need for 250bhp? and what about the g box, can it take that much power? need an LSD?
Is K star the way to go? is there any issues this cant sort out?Can i have some opinions too, im getting a 16v gti engine to put into my golf, firstly, whats best, 2.0 or 1.8? Im thinking obviously 2.0 as its still gunna be N/A for another 10 months but will i notice much difference between a 2.0T and a 1.8T? Next, before it goes into my car, id like to re build it, shall i get uprated pistons/rods now even tho it wont be blown till next year and have it ready to just 'bolt on' the turbo or is it best to wait till i get turbo and do it then? actually, is it best just to run the 16v as it is now then fully re build it along with the turbo next year as im sure any engine i get will last out the year as it is!
sorry for all the questions! hope someone can help!
cheers, James

[Rahul]

there is a post about this by 'altern8'.

have a look at it...

[Rallye_Will]

Jimbob,

I am building this myself as i am on a budget. At the moment i am still sourcing all the parts i need and then i will take the car of the road to perform the conversion. I'm going for a stealth style set-up using 8 injectors and K-star to sort the fuelling. I have most of the bits i need apart from a downpipe (which i believe can be achieved by modifying a Nissan Sylvia? one) and the pipe work for the turbo/intercooler. As for the compression, i am going to send my conrods to stealth for the off-set bush treatment.

[vwturbo]

Jimbob,0-60 is mid sixes on Stealths (old 190 bhp kit) so if and thats a BIG if [:s] i can get decent traction mine should do it around 6secs.

Standard gearbox is fine,but it might be down to luck that mine has survived for the last 4 yrs,so don't expect the gearbox to last cos they ain't the strongest gearboxes around IMO.

K-star is the cheapest way to go,but if i was doing it again i would use a pukka standalone ie DTA and dump the k-jet,then again i really cant complain what i've got cos it works really well and its been reliable [8D]

I might fit a Quaife LSD soon to see if that might help tractions from standing start,but even then i personally don't think it will make much of a difference.

[stealthwagon]

jimbob,
my car is a 1.8 stealth built 16vt which i,ve owned for nearly 2 yrs now and has proven to be nothing more than reliable performance in a mk2 [:)]
if you do this conversion then get it rebuilt when the turbo is getting installed.1.8 or 2.o ? if you can get a 9a bottom end then yes go 2.0 if not,well its your choice.as for internals standard are fine and more than up for the job in hand,mine are and i think vwturbo's are to? but if you feel you want to go further?the standard gearbox is fine but if its tired then rebuild it and fit diff bolts instead of the poxy rivets and a good clutch like helix or sachs.your driving style will determine your box's lifespan,just enjoy the midrange grunt and in gear acceleration these conversions have.forget 0-60 think 0-100,these cars can be quick depending on setup and variation but can only comment on my own which has slain some pretty respected motors off the mark and on the move and that was before my power increase.previous power 217.7bhp@5897 194.4lb/ft@5769
with 180.4 atw
current power 260bhp@6827 216.7lb/ft@5267
with 213.9 atw
hope some of this will be of some use to you,listen to slim about using stealth for his offset bushing[wise move]if you are doing the work yourself then goodluck but
try and take some pointers from people that have been
acclamied and praised for there conversions[not me]rather than be misguided by people you dont no from adam.
cheers neil

[vwturbo]

Stealthwagon,did you get Vince to tweak up the boost when you were down there recently getting your 16vt sorted and power runned and do you have any detonation problems running more than 10 psi?

I would love to run a few more pounds of boost,but i think i'm near the limit before it starts detting.

I might need to dump the chargecooler and probably hybrid the turbo and then look at a larger intercooler if i want to up the boost in the near future and gain them extra horses which are lurking in my engine.

Talking about 16v internals,i know the only real weak point is the conrods on the 16v,i think they can hold 300ish bhp and anything more than you will need to change to stronger ones,otherwise its a strong bottom end for turboing [8D]

[stealthwagon]

vwturbo,
vince did ajust the boost to 12psi,the turbo is capable of more boost which i will save for when i go 2l [:)]
as for pinking,there was slight pinking on the test drive but vince went out in it with john and laptop and sorted it.dont forget i have water injection which helps and my new intercooler seems to be working very well compared to tt one.personally i dont think some charge coolers are all there cracked up to be.

[vwturbo]

If you speak to Vince about chargecoolers,he will tell you they're not all what they are cracked upto be [:s]but i was amazed how it kept the temps down reasonably well when i had my car rolling roaded end of June and it was 40c in his workshop [:o] and that bloody great fan he uses was totally useless when he was tuning my car [:s]

I'm still toying will the idea using water injection as a safety net and that might be needed if we have another hot summer.

Btw that is a standard t25 turbo you are using?? cos i noticed your power peeks at 6800 rpm and mine only peeks at 5900rpm and i was told they don't breath much after 6000rpm.

[stealthwagon]

vw turbo,
my turbo is the original t25 which has been rebuilt to hybrid spec by aet engineering.the comp side is from a t3{cozzie spec}and the turbine side is the same.it is good for 300bhp+ and has made a big difference
to the car as the figures suggest.
i would definatly look at water injection if i was you.thats just my opinion.
cheers Neil.

[madmk4]

VW turbo, start a thread about quaife diffs on here and see what people say about traction...


I tihnk you'll find they're WELL WELL worth it..

Alough the boss at work swear they are total pooe and he uses griper diffs instead....so doesnt everyone else i know whos in competition to actually..

[vwturbo]

Stealthwagon,i think you told me that you had hybrid fitted awhile back,i've got a VERY short memory,sorry! [:s]

I think the first thing i'll do next years is probably have a Quaife fitted and then sort out the water injection before the summer starts [8D].A hybrid turbo is a good idea,but i think that will have to wait,i need to find out if the Quaife helps with traction first before i up the power.

madmk4,who makes a griper? and have you got a cost for one?,i might be interested if they are not too many ££££££

[madmk4]

Gripper diffs are plate type diffs, have a read on the LSD FAQ on the forum for pros and cons..

Bout 600 quid, have a look at DT cataloug... erm.. Gripper make the diffs :) :P

[stealthwagon]

Stealthwagon,i think you told me that you had hybrid fitted awhile back,i've got a VERY short memory,sorry! [:s]

I think the first thing i'll do next years is probably have a Quaife fitted and then sort out the water injection before the summer starts [8D].A hybrid turbo is a good idea,but i think that will have to wait,i need to find out if the Quaife helps with traction first before i up the power.

madmk4,who makes a griper? and have you got a cost for one?,i might be interested if they are not too many ££££££
vwturbo, ithink i did tell u about the hybrid but hey no problem m8.
i'm also thinking about a quaife diff but might check out the gripper b4 i decide [:)]

[vwturbo]

So its Gripper [;)] not Griper! [LOL] no wonder i couldn't find it when i did a search [:s]

Stealthwagon,i wait for you to fit one [;)] and then you can tell me if its any good! [LOL]

[stealthwagon]

will do vwturbo,its top of my list for'must haves'in 2004 [:)]

[madmk4]

the gripper diffs are very much competition units to be honest.

They make it f**king hard to steer. It took me and this other boke to push a gutted mini back a bit..

Plus the plates can need replacing and maintanance.

Vest to go for the quaife for road use IMO, most people seem to like it.

[Jimbob]

What sorta power would bring in the need for an LSD?
what components and costs will i be looking at for a 250bhp 2.0 16v? or even 200bhp?
So if i get uprated con rods and offset bushes to sort the compression, the rest of the internals are good for 300bhp? What cams are you all running? thanks very much for all the info so far!
Cheers, James

[prof]

jimbob 1.8t will be cheaper really

[Jimbob]

i was after a 20vt but im sick of my 1.6 so i was gunna get a valver now, run it N/A until november when i can afford insurance on a turbo then turbo the gti, also, i'll be doing the work myself and I imagine a 16v will be much easier to fit and a lot cheaper to buy! After the research i did on the 1.8t, i found theres a lot of extra work that i wouldnt need to do if i stayed with an original golf engine!

[prof]

hmmmmm thats what i thought, really a 1.8t will be cheeper

[Jimbob]

How come?
Bent 16v gti - £200 = Engine/box, all wireing, bigger brakes/servo, arb's rear disc conversion

1.8t - £1000 at least, then everything envolved in fitting the pedal box, gearchange, management, loom........... not to mention fitting the engine!

id love a 20vt but theres just too much work envolved to fit it and i see it as much more expensive!

[vwturbo]

A 16v turbo is much easier to install than a 1.8t,but what makes them much harder prospect nowadays is sourcing parts in the UK cheaply and thats 'if' you can find any in the first place!.

So the 1.8t engine will probably be alot less hassle cos you can pick one up anywhere for under a grand,but fitting one is another matter which i cant comment on [:s]

It would be much easier if you lived in the US cos theres load of places doing bolt on 16v turbo kits for silly money and most are easy to install and give good power figures what i've seen.

So if you are very lucky and find somebody selling a secondhand 16v turbo kit,go for it! and enjoy! [;)]

[prof]

Ok i take your points but where can you get a cheap 16v turbo manifold? unless you make one, or chop up an s2 one

you also have to run 2 headgaskets, or rebush the rods[£250] or run 8v pistons=more money

you then need a really decent ecu and loom, knock sensors etc

so when you add it all up getting a complete 20vt with management etc will be cheaper, unless you are dead lucky.

g60 ecu/loom= £150 ish, + £400+ for jabba to map it

I'm not being a cnut here, i just think you can't do a cheap and reliable 16v turbo unless you are a professional like 800gs

I started doing it with an ABF but the utter ease of finding 20vt turbo parts really got me going into that instead.

[madmk4]

Yup I'd agree with Prof to be honest.


But this isnt a thread aobut which is better and why, so do the 16v turbo.

Get a T25 built by turbo technics to the spec that they were originally for the conversions and get an S2 manifold on there.

We once ran 170 ATW @ 0.4 bar boost. USING ONE ADDITIONAL INJECTER [LOL][;)]

[stealthwagon]

jimbob,
you dont actually need uprated conrods standard are fine.the offset bushing is what is done to the small end of the rod in order to bring the compression down.its just a straight forward engineering process.
standard cams are fine, its all a question of how far you want to go.look at the figures myself and vwturbo get,theres not many people that would'nt be happy with those figures from there valver regardless of its state of tune.

[stealthwagon]

good point madmk4,
the only issue about doing a16vt nowadays is the manifold but as pointed out in other posts theres ways round it.they are actually available in germany for not to much money.
and to be honest 225bhp20vt lumps are not that easy to find,plenty of 150's but personally i would'nt bother unless it was the 225,i'd rather stick with the valver.
personally i think jimbob will get more satisfaction from force inducting his valver than dropping a modern lump in his car.just my opinion.

[pimp daddy]

Hey, i was just wondering who has a MK II 16vT golf?
Cheers, James
i do

[Jimbob]

pimp daddy, what have you done to your engine? bhp?
Cheers

[vwturbo]

Don't worry about the ecu for the 16vt,its a piece of p!ss to wire up [:P] and shouldn't cost more than £450.



We once ran 170 ATW @ 0.4 bar boost. USING ONE ADDITIONAL INJECTER [LOL][;)]

I aint going to comment on that! [LOL]

[madmk4]

hehe, im just winding ya up [:D] [LOL]

[vwturbo]

I guessed that! [;)]