Hi All, I finished installed an ABF engine into the Mk2 16v track car me and my mate are building today. Connected everything up, filled up with oil, set the timing belt up correctly, double checked everything and fired her up. It starts fine but will not idle, cuts out after 10 - 30 secs depending if you rev it. I can't get it to keep running even with careful use of the accelerator. The KR 1.8 engine was running fine beforehand and I've used all the fuel injection parts from that on the ABF. I've made sure the cam - cam, cam to crank and static ignition timing are all ok. I didn't just rely on the pulley marks but checked the flywheel marks and stuck a long screwdriver down the plug hole on cylinder 1 to set TDC correctly. I've checked all the earths and don't seem to have many bits left over... I'm probably missing something really obvious as it's been a long day... any suggestions? Here's a pic of the engine to add some mild excitement to a slightly dull post... EDIT: just remembered I haven't connected up the crank case breather hose, will this affect it idling? Cheers Stu
Thanks for the replies, been out tinkering and sorted a few things but still won't idle although now starts easily and revs well. Misfires and cuts out under 2k rpm though. Gary - I put the crankcase breather back on secure and checked all other pipes, no apparent air leaks. Infinity - good point, the ISV wasn't buzzing. Traced to a poor connection on control module behind dash (well, would be if car had much of a dash), sorted that and buzzing away fine now. I checked and tested the senders on the side of the head and their wiring. They all give the same reading when hooked up to temp gauge so think they are fine. I notice if I wind the dizzy clockwise from the TDC position I had it set to yesterday the car starts easier and seems to rev a little better and tries a bit harder to idle. With it wound anticlockwise (advanced?) it is more reluctant to start but cuts out either way. Any more ideas? Double checked cam belt timing again and that's fine. Seems to run gret if you hold it above 2k rpm but under that it just dies. The idle control screw on the throttle body seems to have little effect, can't get it to idle even with that wound a long way out.
My KR wouldn't idle / start properly without this part connected properly. http://i19.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/e0/2e/fae4_1.JPG Might seem obvious - Worth checking just to make sure it hasn't come loose. It started but wouldn't idle properly.
Thanks for the reply - that's the over-run cut off valve if I remember correctly, had trouble with air leaks around that on my other Mk2 16v a while ago. I'm pretty sure it's connected up ok on this car but will double check it to make sure. The red car (1987/8 model) I'm working on now is a little different that my later Mk2 in terms of the air box and associated vacuum lines, don't think it has the 'flying saucer' on the air box and the airbox itself is smaller. Also the throttle body doesn't have the two thin vacuum lines coming from the underside of it that my other car has. None of this should affect the problems I'm having I wouldn't have thought though as it idled fine with the KR engine in there a few weeks ago, just thought I'd mention it in case it helps anyone in the diagnosis of the fault. Any more ideas?
Stu, if you're looking from the left hand inner wing and turning the distributor, clockwise is advanced, anti-clock is retarded.
Spent some more time on the car this evening, still can't get it to idle! Tonight I've taken apart and cleaned out the entire intake trunking from air flow meter to throttle body, cleaned out ISV, overrun cut off valve, checked and secured all vacuum hoses. Also checked and cleaned up ECU connections, re-checked timing and set the dizzy to zero degrees - ie. TDC. The car starts great, although it seems to have a slight misfire, will rev ok above 1.5k rpm but below that shudders and cuts out. It's the same with the ISV electrical connection unplugged, and/or the cold start valve (CSV). The injectors are all getting fuel to them, and the plugs all get a spark. Any more ideas? Seems to point to the ISV but on the other hand it worked fine on the KR and my other 16v will idle fine with that disconnected anyway. Frustrating as I don't want to get into setting the height of the air flow meter plunger, messing around with system pressures / mixture and stuff as it was all fine on the KR so should work on this engine to at least get it idling properly! Help please ABF experts!
id double check timing belt and re-adjust the dizzy. or try removing the CSV all together and blocking with something, could be staying open? is the throttle closing fully and pressing the microswitch? I could be talking crap but youve tried everything else
As GVK says... I'd start by playing with the ignition timing... just tweak the dizzy a bit and see if it ticks over better. Failing that... did you remember to attach the vac lines on the back of the inlet manifold & TB?
Hi All, Thanks for the replies, much appreciated 1. Timing belt - yes, I've double checked the timing belt and it's set up fine. I'd checked the cam to cam timing when it was in bits and that was correct too. One thing I did notice is that if I set the flywheel to the TDC mark though the hole in the gearbox then the crank pulley is very slightly out on it's mark, but I put this down to using the KR pulley with the ABF lower cam cover? I've been using the flywheel mark anyway for setting up. 2. Distributor - I've tried with this set to zero degrees mainly, where you set the rest of the engine to TDC and then line up the mark on the casing of the dizzy with the rotor arm when it's pointing to the position for cylinder #1. I have also tried advancing and retarding it to what I think is a few degrees either side of that position from previous experience. Obviously it's very difficult to know how far advanced it is as I can't get my timing light on it since the car cuts out unless you sit in it pressing the throttle pedal! More advance appears to aid starting but doesn't do anything for the idle so far. 3. Throttle body - the microswitch is clicking fine when the throttle is left to rest on it's spring so I think that's ok. As for vacuum lines, I was suprised to find that unlike my later ('91) 16v, this one doesn't have the small vacuum lines attached to the underside of the throttle body and no provision for them by the looks of it. It does have the earlier smaller airbox so a few bits are different, but everything is plumbed in as it should be with no apparent leaks, the larger one to the back of the inlet manifold is secured correctly. 4. ISV - this buzzes with the ignition, cleaned it out and tried with it's electrical connection on or off, no difference. CSV is the same, no apparent difference to starting or idling, ie. it won't idle either way! Haven't tried removing the ISV and blocking off the air pipes, could try that? The other thing that I've altered is the idle adjustment / air bypass screw on the throttle body. I took it out and cleaned it up and have tried it screwed all the way in (won't start at all as expected), half way out (starts but won't idle) and all the way out (won't start). What is the basic setting for this to start with, like how many turns back from fully tight is a good starting point? Apologies for the long detailed reply but just trying to make sure to get all the info in there in case it leads to a eureka moment for someone who can help! Thanks for the info so far, keep the ideas coming please!
Bump - any more ideas? Going to have another mess with this today so any further suggestions of things to check I might have missed appreciated! One other thing I've noticed on this car is that the flexible pipe from the back of the bottom of the air box to exhaust manifold is missing, presumably 'cos it has a four branch fitted rather than a standard cast manifold. Should this hole be blocked off or left open, does it matter? Also, the side intake 'trumpet' on the airbox has been removed at some point, presumably to let more air in (has a K&N filter) - would this affect idling?
Airbox won't affect the idling stu So you can get the car idling of sorts, adjust the hard stop* on the throttle, then check the timing, adjust to 6 degs and then go from there. *Where the throttle quadrant stops against the tb, there's a threaded peice with a lock nut on it, adjust that. Have you tried taking off the inlet manifold and checking both gaskets in case there's an air leak from them?
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Excellent idea - my mate yesterday suggested tightening the throttle cable to get it to idle at 2k rpm, he was joking but it wasn't a bad idea. This is a better way to achieve it though! Yes, if I can get it to a noisy 2k rpm 'idle' and keep running while I get the timing light on it etc then I can hopefully get to the bottom of it. I removed the inlet manifold complete from the KR, ie. didn't separate upper and lower halves, and bolted it onto the ABF with a new gasket between the head and lower part so it should be fine. Something else to check though, sure I've got a few gaskets 'in stock' but will check before taking it apart. I remember on my other one I had the 42mm (?) upper to lower gasket in place when I took it to Stealth and Vince wondered why it was reading low on the rollers, he took it out and put the 50mm (?) which gave better airflow and about 10bhp more... stranger things have happened! Thanks as always Gary - will report back later
Thanks Gary - your expert advice has really helped, got the car idling for the first time with the ABF yesterday! Wound the throttle stop out to get it running at 2k rpm, set timing to 6 degrees and carefully wound stop back in - still kept stalling. Used a 3mm allen key to turn the mixture screw half a turn clockwise and re-tried, better but still stalled. In the end I turned the mixture screw 1 1/2 turns from it's initial position clockwise to get a rough idle. Then reset the timing to 6 degrees with my timing light and it smoothed out considerably. After that it would idle with the crankcase breather and ISV disconnected so set the idle to 1k rpm ish with it like that, switched off and reconnected breather and ISV and it holds the idle around 1k rpm now, although still a little rough. I notice that like my other 16v at one point, the idle flucutates a little on this one and if you watch the flywheel with the timing light you see the timing advance and then return to 6 degrees every so often, corresponding with the idle fluctuation. I seem to recall this was due to a dodgy ECU connection on the other one so will check that next.
I thought the timing on a Kjet car was set at idle, rather than 2000 rpm... check the haynes manual for a 2nd opinion though. Digi's are set at the higher revs. This whole episode sounds like your ignition timing's out, or at least it's the first thing to rule out.
Sounds like you're on the right track now Stu, just to clarify, you have set the timing with it at 900rpm ish not at 2k as Mike mentions above? Pleased to read you've made progress tho mate
