summary of my experiences with various tyres this year... After hearing many positive things about A048`s, I decided to take the plunge, buy a new set and see what they are like for myself. I`ve only run 888 as track tyres before and know what they feel like in most conditions now. I have a good idea of what life to expect out of a set and how they perform when hot or cold. Had a set of A048`s fitted in Medium 195/50/15 in March, Heat cycled them at Silverstone in May and decided to try them out at Cadwell in June. First time I turned into Charlies, the steering felt MUCH heavier than before, I immediately commented on it to my passenger. Over the next few laps, once they warmed up, I could feel the sidewallls were much harder. The car usually has a strange `bounce` when cornering under load, its the tyre wall flexing and I can always feel it. I`m used to it and its not a problem, but the A048`s don`t do that and it makes the turn in feel much sharper, but required more steering effort. They didn`t overheat and grip wise seemed as good as the 888`s. From first impressions, if they cost the same as 888`s, I`d got for the Yokohamas, but the price difference is quite high, however, I need to see if they last longer and work out the /track mile to see how much more they work out in real terms. I also tried a part worn set of the DZ02`s. I`d put them somewhere between the 888`s and A048`s. Definately can feel the sidewall flexing, more than the A048`s but not as much as the 888`s. Grip wise they seemed good, but these have had a few more heat cycles than the others and didn`t seem quite as progressive, once the grip started to go, it fell off much quicker than the other 2, however, I only did a couple of dry sessions with them, I need to do more laps to really get a feel for them and get them fully warmed up. With cost factored in, the 888`s are better value/performance. However, I spend a lot on a trackdays / ring trips and if the A048`s are noticeably better, surely that has to be factored in ? No point spending a couple of hundred quid on a trackday, then having tyres that you know could be better ? If the extra cost worked out at 15 per trackday more for a set of A048`s , its something that needs looking at, isn`t it ? At the moment, I`m still not sure, I hope to have a more definative answer after my summer ring trip, but like most things, they are subjective so what I prefer, on my car with my driving style may be totally unsuitable for you. I tried out a set of Kumho V700`s at the ring. I`d bought a used set that had been heat cycled plenty times, in 205/50/15. Hard compound. My initial thoughts (these may be partly due to the tyres been old and cycled several times.) They take longer to warm up than the 888`s, Direzzas or A048`s. The squeal more than the 888`s, Direzzas or A048`s The grip feels to be slightly less, but the GPS traces don`t really back this up. Perhaps I`m driving them the same as the others, but using more of the available grip ? The 205/50 work well after some minor arch tweaking. They are wearing FAR FAR better than any other `R` tyre I`ve used before. Sidewalls seem to be somewhere between the 888`s and the A048`s. Probably not quite as stiff as the A048`s, but close. I am definately buying a set of these for my next track tyres instead of 888`s or A048`s. They are what I was hoping the A048`s would be, similar grip to the Toyo`s but longer life, I find the A048`s better than the Toyos, but the life is dissapointing. The only thing I`m undecided on is should I go for 205/50 or 195/50, the price difference is negligible and which compound. The Hard compound may not be perfect for UK tracks, the Hard does seem to take a while to heat up on my Golf, on heavier / more powerful cars, that may not be an issue, but the Medium would probably be better in my case for shorter sessions and would offer more grip too. The 205 section means taller gearing, so I lose on acceleration a bit, but has the benefit of a wider profile to hopefully help tyre temps. Overall, I like them, a LOT. I managed around 70 laps out of my A048`s before they were pretty much worn out. I did over 100 laps (at similar pace) on the part worn Kumho`s and they still had life left !
Thanks for an interesting read, Nige. Hard compound Kumho's no good for Curby then Where did you do those 70-100 laps? I guess it was a variety of tracks, which is why you haven't specified. I was wondering how the patterns compared. A set of tyres that had more of a road type pattern might be good to drive a car to the 'Ring and enjoy the weekend, without taking a full spare set of wheels and tyres (which is a concern, with something the size of a Scirocco). I notice Camskill seem to want 98 a corner for the Kumhos - a fair bit more than Toyos - what have you been paying?
Interesting stuff. At sprints, the V700s tend to be fitted on lighter cars (the choice of the list 1B caterfield runners presently, soft compound) and 888s on heavier ones. Hardly ever see 48's or DZs. I have had V700s in soft, medium and hard - the mediums were perfect for my ibiza for trackdays, the softs used to fall apart even at curborough. They are excellent in the rain when at full depth. The 888s are better on my car IMO - the kumho's have a very stiff sidewall and cause the tread surface to buckle in cornering leading to a wear band about 1/3 of the width in. The Toyo's dont do this and wear flatter across the tread. I have heard really good things about the new DZ03 - need to try some of these at some point as the 888s do overheat sometimes on trackdays - but problem is the price......new slicks can be had for less money I rate the 888 very highly - its soft enough to be capable in the rain, with just enough heat capacity for dry trackdays and soft enough for sprint events. Doing better on any of these takes away from others. Very interested to hear how you get on with the hard V700s
Mike, I did 260 Laps of the ring this summer, that was where the 70 laps for the A048`s (and from previous experience the same out of a set of 888`s) came from, compared to 100+ for a part worn set of Hard V700`s ! Rob, I like the stiffer sidewall of the A048 and V700, it makes turn-in feel much better, the front doesn`t feel like it is `washing out`, which is what it feels like with the sidewall flexing on the 888`s. I also have the opposite in terms of wear, the 888`s have that horrible groove 1/3 of the way across, it is much less noticeable on the V700`s. The Kumho`s will be about 100 each, but thats what I was saying, in MY experience, the increased life is worth the extra /tyre initial cost.
Thanks Nige... that's a lot more impressive than 70 laps of a 'normal' track, although I guess the less grippy surface on the Ring makes it less hard on tyres, on a per mile basis. Don't suppose you're at the 'Ring from 18-20th September, are you?
Very informative thread Nige. Just to delve a bit deeper, which do you reckon is best in the wet and what sort of spring rates and bar sizes are you running? I'm torn between some proper tyres and sticking with Eagle F1's. The F1's are very good in the wet, which is always a threat, especially at the 'ring. I've ran my Polo on 048's and it was great in the dry, but it was awful in the wet, BUT it was very stiffly sprung. I just don't fancy potentially having a crap 'ring trip because I was on the wrong tyres.
Mike, You still get pretty decent tyre wear on the ring, but the longer sections seem to let the tyres stabilise a bit more. Afraid i`ve finished at the ring for 2009.. I`m running 280lb front springs, 220rear, std front ARB and no rear ARB, so as you can see, my car is pretty soft, but is nice and compliant. In the wet, i`ve heard good things about the Kumho`s in Medium compound, I think the Hard would be difficult to get up to temp in the damp. I loved Eagle F1`s on the Mazda 6 I had, hated them on my Golf as track tyres ! I ran a set of Parada Spec2`s, really liked those but I overheated them by doing too many back to back laps and the tread started falling apart. i`d say realistically that they should do 1 lap in the dry then be allowed to cool. I think part of your issue is your polo being so hard, by losing that softness, it will make any tyre choice difficult for use in the wet. I have a set of dedicated Silverstone Wet tyres for use when it rains, they are a lower temp compound with deep grooves, so heat up nicely in the wet but would be destroyed in a lap in the dry.
I dont understand why your car grooves the 888 when mine doesn't - especially when you say the sidewall is stiffer on the kumhos - sidewall stiffness causes the crease to happen could be just different setups I guess - my car is stiffer than yours but still less stiff than a circuit racer would be go get a bit more feel for hillclimbing
Agreed, it is strange, but most cars i see on 888`s have that groove, especially on the front nearside. Differing driving styles will have an effect too. I work the fronts much harder that the rears on mine, the f n/s really gets abused . I am trying to put less initial load on them by being smoother into a corner, but the way I drive and the car setup doesn`t mean its something I can change easily.
Then the sidewall stiffness observations may not hold true and something else if giving you the better turn in feel My car does this with the kumho's, and with crossply slicks which have stiffer sidewalls than a radial. But not with 888s which you say feel softer in the sidewall. We are not understanding something here........
No, the sidewall stiffness was definately noticeable. I did 120 miles at Cadwell in the morning session in June on 888`s, came in for lunch, fitted the A048`s and the first lap out noticed the difference in steering feel and less feel of the tyre rolling. Nothing else had been changed, suspension was untouched and the tyre pressures were the same. However, that doesn`t mean it would be the same on your car
Stiffer sidewalls= crisper sharper turn in. Ie more response/edge, through the steering wheel. I also run Dunlop D01j's which have the stiffer side wall to the 888's and turn in better with slightly more grip. They are more of a slick based compond as well.
I was under the impression that the DO1j was an excellent circuit tyre but didn't work quite as well in the wet, or straight from cold as the R888? The Avon ZZR is also an excellent circuit tyre, pukka race tyre construction, but is not a patch on the 888 in the wet
Did you time any laps to compare? I might be able to get hold of some 2nd hand A048s, so if they're a good option, I might do that.
i hav run eagle f1,s on track ,great in the wet , but soon fall apart in the dry , but no comparison to r888 or a48,s in the dry. bought a couple of new sets of r888s and always thought they wher good value, had two sets of second hand a48s and i honesly thought they wher slightly better,.was paying 50 quid a pop for the r888, when the golf race series kicked off , but the a48s cost double. not sure what current prices are now
