Aftermarket Managements and Haldex?

Anyone knows how to go round this problem?

Basically i love standard management for reliability but am thinking of going aftermarket for all the extras like more then one map, launch control, flat shift etc but i still want haldex to be controled same way as standard

Any managements out there suitable?

 

I looked in to this ages ago and there are units that give fixed settings.
What you need is a ecu that you can program to suit your needs. I did fined the guy at Haldex who wrote the software, but never managed to contact him. I would have assumed he wouldn't be able to help as he would had signed a intellectual property agreement..

Whats required is an emulator to allow software to be written and saved to the ECU, it should just be good old canbus protocol with a binary code map just like the management ECU's.

I keep meaning to speak to the EVO rally boys as the setup on the EVO is very similair to the Haldex and i know they can be tweeked.

 

Good question. I know the haldex communicates with the ECU via CAN, but unless you know exactly what it's asking for then even if your aftermarket ECU does have CAN I don't know how you'd send it the signals?

Does your management have outputs for stepper motor control? You could use that to directly control the stepper motor which controls the needle in the control valve on the haldex clutch, but then you'd need to "map" in when the ecu controls this. So unless your ecu also has wheel speed sensors (and traction control?) then you'll be relying on the 4wd working under boost or throttle postion or however you program it.

 

SQS racing haldex controller - removed need for CAN control:

http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/314:406:haldex-regulator-controler-valve

 

Thanks for your input lads, you are correct

I spoke to Wayne Scoffield from chip wizards few times regarding this, he said he is confident that he could configure just about any aftermarket management to control a stepper motor via couple of variables like tps position and boost value but it would be time consuming and would require lots of experimenting to get it spot on

that the reason why i wondered if any managements out there have this feature already programed for faster installation

I think oem management relies on tps and abs signal inputs via can bus?

Interesting read about sqs controller

 

I had bought a controller from the states, basically it was an automatic gearbox controller,which had been programmed with the haldex contorl programme from a skoda octavia rally car. fully integratable with any managament system and fully programmable. it cost me $1100, but it never came to fruition after 3 years so i got a refund as I think my MoTeC M600 can handle it. IT has 4 stepper motor aux outputs but as you have pointed out, you'lll need a lot of time to "map" it. but you could have different maps depending on the driving you're doing, a dedicated drag race map for instance.

SQS controller looks like a "volume" knob. I may be wrong but anything where all you can do it manually wind the valve to a set position (with no "active" control according to conditions or engine power) are just garbage for track and only any good for giving you 4wd for a drag launch,

 

It does look like a volume knob - and that it would not give dynamic adjustment 'on the fly' - but maybe thats enough for racing / rallying?

These lads seem to know what they are doing so I would be suprised if this was total garbage. Thr handbrake-cut looks pretty useful as well.

Its not like we all run active front wheel diffs is it? they are fixed.

 

Leave the standarnd management in to do its stuff (if its also in control of the haldex that is) then add an aftermarket just to control the fuel and spark. You could even leave the existing ECU in to control the throttle if its electronic.

 

Do tell more!

How could i achieve that? Surely i would have to double up on all engine sensors somehow or what is minimum requirement for oem ecu to be connected to without having a fit?

Just cant see if thats doable?

 

fair point but the whole idea of the haldex sytem is to give 4wd when required, and actively.

 

Correct, mechanical devices are only good for drag racing or snow/gravel rallies i would guess but not good enough for my needs

 

presumably thats what its for then - they are big into snow and gravel work

 

Yes, the easiest way is to double up on sensors. So you fit your own crank trigger wheel and sensor, coolant temp, air temp and map sensor.

The things to be concerned about are any diagnostics actions that could potentially set a limp home throttle condition. On an older system such as on an A3, you will most likely find that throttle pedal or body signal errors will be the only thing of concern to trigger a limp home. So you may not be able to tap into that signal for throttle position from either the pedal or the body (but it is worth trying anyway ). You will only need this for your transient fueling signal anyhow but this not a problem because most aftermarket ECU's can use a Map signal for this anyway.

If your fueling is outside the expected limits this may set a mill light on your dash but again this will not limit your throttle (only the latest ECUs will do this).

It is normally possible to share a crank sensor especially if it is Hall Effect. With a VR crank sensor as found on the 1.8T sharing the sensor will degrade its signal but it is dependant on the lower acceptable limits within the ECU as to whether this will be a problem. Again, its no big deal to add a crank trigger wheel and sensor!

It is in fact possible to share all of the other temperature sensors but this will change their value for the original ecu so more likely to set a mill light. Worst case it could screw with the ECU torque calculation and thus introduce some throttle limiting. So personally id just use my own sensors. If you are on Cable throttle, share away!!


.... This is basically how LPG piggyback is done!

 

Cheers for the good info there

I am on fly by wire throttle, deffo something to look into, i will speak to Wayne and hear what he got to say

 

Great knowledge - how do you switch off the main ECU from trying to run fuel and spark though?

 

You just disconnect the wires going to the coils and injectors

 

Ha, simples!

Are there any show-stopping errors this then generates?

 

There will be on ME 7.X as in this example. For starters I can see thottle monitor throwing a wobbly and shutting down PWM to the throttle body. The cat monitor errors and fuel trim issues triggered in the original PCM and caused by running a standalone for fuel and spark will not matter and I am sure the chap (Wayne) can code out these errors to stop the check light from activating. Of couse if the throttle does shut down, not having an accurate TPS signal will not help the haldex controller in executing its function. Don't now of any 1.8T w/ME 7.5 and haldex running like this, may work but sounds messy with unknown concequences.
The haldex controller in general needs input from steering angle, ABS, vehicle speed and TPS in order to activate the clutches for spliting power from front to back. With these inputs it can work seemlessly.
To keep this build from becoming messy and introducing unwanted issues, I would suggest talking to Bill B on this one as I am sure he had his OE ecu custom remapped and flashed for his big power 1.8T ( with a bigger MAF) before he switched to his DTA system.

 

Cheers for great input Toyo, invaluable as ever!

My ecu also had been custom remaped to suit my current set up also running 3" maf, no problem in doing that again to suit hardware change although time consuming

Looks like i may well be stuck with me7 on its own and forget multiple maps, launch control ect

 

KILLJOY MUCH!!


The throttle monitoring will only set default throttle typically if you interfere with the pedal or plate sensor signal to the module. But like I said, you really dont need this signal so it can remain undisturbed for the Original ECU and/or Haldex. As far as the original ECU is concerned it is in full control of the engine. Anything that goes out of range will just throw a light. There are loads of LPG cars running in this fashion as well as a vehicles running piggy back's following hardware mods also.

If we were talking very latest and greatest ECU's then fuel monitoring will eventually set you into default throttle if you go out of expected range. But for the older stuff its a lot more basic.

This is simply a possible solution which gives you the flexability of standalone adjustability...... switchable maps, launch control etc etc etc. And always the possibility to return back to standard. easily. Obviously not for the faint hearted but IMO a better option than re-chipping if you are planning to make future changes or require flexability.