I've got a few exhausts in the kitchen parts depot at the moment, and what with the various chit chat about Hot Tuning Super Sprint copies, although it doesn't answer the quality questions being raised on the other thread, it occurred to me maybe we needed a reference thread on exhaust manifolds? Jot down some data, see what comes of it? Mk1 16v to start with, as I don't fettle much else - standard known head exhaust port diameters: Engine Port Dia Casting# Source KR 38mm Group N homologation docs 9A 38mm 051 103 373 A Physical measure up ABF 38mm 051 103 373 D (no figs for ABF to hand - anyone?). Make Port diameter ID Primary exit ID Secondary/final exit ID System link pipe in/out Notes OEM cast manifolds (KR & ABF) 39.5mm 42mm* 56mm (ABF) In: n/a. Out: tbc Outlet diameters for the two downpipes on the std cast manifolds Ashley 35.7mm - 37.6mm n/a 52.3-53.3mm** 54mm/TBC Large variation on ports & poor quality welding impeding flow. Collector not smooth inside. DUBpower*** 38.5-39mm n/a 54.3mm 53mm/53mm Clean port exits Supersprint**** 38.5-39.5mm 47mm 56-56.7mm 46-47mm Clean port exits * Gasket is twin 51mm ** Two 4 branches checked *** Same style as the Ashley **** Wall thickness circa 1.5mm When I actually started looking at them closely, I was quite surprised with what I found. The Ashley is shocking around the ports! Primary & secondary lengths: OEM cast manifolds (ABF or 9A - TBC, PN 027 253 033 BF) 4 => 2 (+ down pipe => 1) Primaries Cyl 1 2 3 4 Measurement 44.5 - 45 44 44 44.5 - 45 Downpipe - KR Cyl 1&4 2&3 Measurement 43cm 43cm Note: goes into silencer Average primary + secondary Ashley/DUBPower 4 => 1 Cyl 1 2 3 4 Measurement 1 53 50 47 46 Measurement 2 53.5 49 46 44 Average 53.25 49.5 48 45 Supersprint 4 => 2 => 1 Primaries Cyl 1 2 3 4 Measurement 1 27 28 33 28 Measurement 2 24 23 25 20 Average 25.5 25.5 29 24 Secondaries Cyl 1&4 2&3 Measurement 1 36 37 Measurement 2 28 29 Average 32 33 Average primary + secondary 57.5 58.5 62 56 Note no.3 primary runner on Supersprint close to steering UJ (1cm from steel to steel).
This could be good Chris. As a means of attaching the exhaust system to the engine, the Ashley manifold does it's job, but as you've now seen, it needs re-working to give it a basic fighting chance. I had to re-shape the primary inlets quite a bit to line one up with a customers head... you can imagine the step between the 38mm head outlet and 35mm inlet!.... I have pics which I'll load up at some point to show what's needed. The Supersprint manifold is a much better quality, but at a price.
051 103 373 D head (ABF late 6A etc) has 38mm exhaust ports too. The outlet diameters for the two downpipes on the std cast manifolds (KR and ABF) is approx 42mm with a little variation due to castings.
I have the details for the cast section of the exhaust manifold from either and ABF or 9A. Would need ot check VAGCAT for details. P/N: 027253033BF Head side ports: 39.5mm Down pipe side: Port from runners 1&4 = 44.5 - 45mm (Not 100% round) Port from runners 2&3 = 44mm (Not 100% round) Gasket on down pipe side: twin 51mm Gurds
If it's any help I've had in my possesion 3 different castings for the ABF RHD manifold and there are at least two LHD distinctly different equal length primary tubular types. I have photos of the LHD manis on my PC at home somewhere which when I return home I'll dig out and post up.
Some good info coming out here - all updated into post 1. Note I've treated the OEM casting as a primary/secondary system, akin to 4-2-1, even though we think of them as door stops! Definitely interested in variations G60. Gurds/anyone, any chance of measuring the "secondaries" on an OEM 16v downpipe? Mk2 & 3.
I think I'm misinterpreting this surely though? - one is the pipe, the other the gasket. Are they that much different? Alternatively, there must be a difference from 1.8 to 2.0 surely?
G60 syncro cast manifold, casting number: 037 253 033 (1989 year) Primaries (measured flange face to flange face): cyl1 9", cyl2 7", cyl3 6", cyl4 11" original port sizes don't know, as ported to match manifold gasket. Existing ports are 27mm wide x 37mm tall. Downpipe flange holes 43mm (not ported yet). Manifold has pipe for some sort of probe to be inserted (EGT? Lambda?) screwed into the downpipe flange, drillings so it can sample both outlets.
Yea, the gasket is huge compared to the port size. It is as it came off the car. I don't have any mk2 down pipes but do have a brand new mk3 down pipe I can measure. Gurds
LHD ABF Exhaust Manifolds Hi folks Sorry for the delay... Moved house over a month ago and everything is still pandemonium... A rough comparison showing the longer primaries in the left hooker mani: And the other left hooker type: I've never had enough disposable income to just go and buy one of these, which is crap, as they look like they would fit a RHD car, albiet it the flange would be very close to the steering rack boot.
I've got a 16V Scirocco cast exhaust manifold that I obtained from the US recently to make the job of fitting a 16V into a LHD Syncro easier. It's like the KR manifold, but the downpipe mating flange is shifted 1" or 2" across from that on the KR (makes clearing the propshaft easier; the KR manifold's flange would sit directly above the prop). These manifolds are quite rare. Apparently they're sought after also for MK1 16V conversions(?). I've no idea if any measurements from this are any help for this thread but if they are I'll take some with pictures.
Quick update to this thread. I recently measured up a Supersprint system exit pipe dia, into the link pipe. This came out as 46-47mm. I went to add it to the table in post 1, only to query my measurement. Checked it again, and it was right. The Ashley/DubPower is 53/54mm. Post 1 updated. I called vw_singh to ask him to check his S/S system and he recalls there are 2 versions of this 4-2-1 manifold, one being a 'race' system, the other being a conventional aftermarket system. The former is no longer available. The exit to link pipe on this race system is circa 60mm. This would correspond with the 60mm dia of the race system, which I think is still available. I'm trying to find part nos for these for reference, but am struggling with Google - so am popping these findings so far up for now. Thanks to Mike_H for supplying the Supersprint system for measuring up
Milltek 4-branch for Mk2 16v. 37mm primaries 52mm outlet on link pipe to system PNs: MSVW3003 12329-03
I've got the LHD set up in my garage, it'll fit in RHD no probs, I wil get it out and give it a measure. I've been waiting to fit it for a while. i have atlease half a dozen cast manifolds and they all have cracks , which will be going to scrap soon
I've been meaning to post to this thread for a while now. I've now got round to uploading some photo's, so here you go: Comparision of MK1 Golf Supersprint road spec manifold and Hot Tuning/Ta-Technix manifold. Both are stainless steel. Supersprint currently list both the road version and racing version on their web site: Road version: 420 (ouch!) Code: 883601 http://www.supersprint.com/en/prod-c-7074-6561-10241-manifold_stainless_steel.aspx Racing version: 451 (ouch!!) Code: 322301 http://www.supersprint.com/en/prod-c-7074-6561-10075-manifold_stainless_steel.aspx Price comparision the Hot tuning one was 165.00 inc delivery. The Supersprint used in these photos was bought back in 1999 from TSR for 275.00. Supersprint: header pipe circumference (4-2 pipes) approx 14.2cm secondary pipe circumference (2-1 pipes) approx 12.2cm system link pipe 43.75mm (1 3/4") Hot Tuning header pipe circumference (4-2 pipes) approx 14.4cm secondary pipe circumference (2-1 pipes) approx 12.2cm system link pipe 54mm (2") Supersprint Manifold - note clean ports Supersprint Manifold Supersprint Manifold - ignore welding on left hand pipes, this has been rewelded Hot tuning manifold Hot tuning manifold - note difference in quality of the ports compared to supersprint, overall the internal port diameter on the hot tuning is slightly bigger than the Supersprint Hot tuning manifold Hot tuning manifold Hot tuning left, Supersprint right Note difference in quality of the ports on the Hot tuning compared to supersprint, overall the internal port diameter on the hot tuning is slightly bigger than the Supersprint though. Supersprint left, Hot tuning right Supersprint left, Hot tuning right Supersprint left, Hot tuning right
Supersprintmanifold will fit a Mk1 ABF perfick with an undercut and weld so as to clear the steering column boot but will not then attach to the straight pipe after the straight section from the flex joint from the down pipes - ask me how I know................so I had a bespoke st/steel system made - 85 Db and fine on drive by`s See my web site for details
I have been on the lookout for the ABF exhaust manifolds and stumbled across 2 different part #'s: 037 253 031 AQ http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-0-16V-ABF-...235367312?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item2a32783d90 and : 037 253 031 BK http://www.ebay.de/itm/SEAT-TOLEDO-...298413893?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item3f2aa54545 You can see the differences between where the runners meet the flange. If you search German ebay (ebay.de) for "abgaskrmmer ABF" you can see what is available.
