A bit of background first. On my last mk3 golf I had an issue where the central locking would not fully unlock on the passenger door. It would make all the right noises and the pin go up and down but would not open. I ripped off the door card and smashed off the back of the lock mech and got it open. The same has happened a few times on my current mk3 which thankfully has no door cards at present. I'd worked out from my old lock how to open the lock without any real dammage so more of an inconvenience then anything. I thought the lock was knackered so was going to get a new one but it's now done it on the drivers side! What I've uncovered so far One thing I'd remembered this time is that I'd armed the alarm as the door was closing. Having investigated this afternoon I've found that every time I lock the doors with the remote with a door open if I then shut the door it won't unlock again! It's the electronic bottom part of the lock that doesn't release the crucial part of the mechanism that engages to release the latch. From all appearances it appears to unlock but the door pull (inside or out) won't release the latch. How you can help Can anyone try this and see if it happens to them also? Obviously don't actually close your door or you could be proper fecked, simply close the latch with your finger/screwdriver or something. So: 1. Open door 2. Remote central lock 3. Close latch with finger or screwdriver 4. Remote unlock 5. Try handle Does the latch pop open? From there on can we figure out why this happens - is it just me, the way the alarm is fitted, the fact I have delocked (polo 6n2 rears handles)? All help much appreciated! Edit: Thought I best add. If your lock doesn't open so the door pulls don't release the catch you can pop the latch open by prodding the bottom of the latch mechanism at the back with a screwdriver or similar.
One more thing. Once you've got the latch into the unlocked but will not open state will the physical use of the key properly unlock things? Having no locks I can't test this unless I put my old handles back on.
My text earlier was slightly inaccurate, Rob... When I locked the car with a door open, then unlocked, the latch did re-open when the handle was pulled. As I also said, my driver`s door sometimes goes through all the motions of unlocking (can hear the actuator operate and the pin comes up), but the door won`t open. Re-lock/unlock solves it every time. I subsequently replaced the whole door (not for this reason, though), and the new one does exactly the same, so either both mechanisms have the same fault (bit too much of a coincedence, IMO) or it`s something else. I think I`m right in saying they have electronic `deadlocks` to prevent the pins being `slim-jim-ed` or the handle being ripped off and the mechanism being manually operated. If that is the case then, I`d assume the `deadlock` release signal would come from the c/l module under the dash. Could be your mechnism isn`t receiving this signal for some reason. I could be talking b*llocks, so any insight from anyone else would help.
Thanks Stu, They do have deadlocks and if you ever disassemble a mech you'll find it doesn't work anything like you'd expect (well that's what I found). I have a spare o/s mech which I was thinking of photographing and posting on here a guide to how they work / instructions on how to open them in situations like I'm experiencing. I thought better of it though- maybe something for the members section? Anyhow, my issue IS deadlock related. For some reason the car 'remembers' that a door was open when the locks were closed and for some stupid reason decides it's unecasary to release the deadlock on that door. The fact yours behave differently indicates that it is particular to my car - either a fault related to something OE or more likely (I hope) the way in which the Clifford has been thrown in. I hope the latter as I'm not happy with the Clifford Concept anyway and have a Toad to wire in instead.
Why oh why did I raise this. Have I tempted fate? Now I am experiencing this on the o/s from remote lock/unlock: Sometimes after unlock the latch only releases from it's first catch. I have to shut the door then open again. (I think this may just be the latch catching on the door pin) And now more recently (and I think as you suffer Stu) the lock appears to open but he deadlock is not released. One ore two lock/unlock cycles solves the problem. [:^(] I've got a spare lock/latch assembly that was AOK on last car so I'll fix this and see where that leaves me. I'm determined to get to the botto of this. Will keep you all updated with what pans out.
This evening I just found this... With the engine running close locks using door pins. Turn off engine and door locks seem to release. Door pins go up but deadlocks don't release leaving me locked in the car . And so the problems continue.
I've got something similar to this on my B4 Passat. Driver's door. It has central locking, but no alarm though. The original problem surfaced if I undid the lock on the key but didn't wait for the pin to rise before pulling the handle. Now it seems to me that something has worn and it's generally being difficult when I rush it. Even the handle is getting awkward when the door is actually unlocked. Could well be it's a different problem, and simply handle wear? If it won't open, I just reach in through the back door and open the driver's from the inside. Pain in the... hence I assumed it was a handle issue.
It p***es me off. Latches are slow to react (which I can live with) but I'm currently riding without door cards because of the fear of being locked in. I think (hope) it's all down to a crap fit of the clifford alarm. Anyone know or is a decent auto elec in Stockport area who can help or lives anywhere and can advise?
Still no real progress on this. If anyone could confirm how the central locks should work on a Mk3 golf or even whether they have similar issues on their cars it would be a big help. I've studied the mechanics of mk3 latches and understand exactly how they work but for one question relating to how the small pin controlled by a solenoid at the bottom of the unit should operate. Yesterday I pulled everything apart and tried my best to work out the electrics side of things. At the top of the unit there is a three pin plug that is connected to two microswitches. These switches are closed when the lock barel is turned in each direction earthing one of two circuits at either time sending a lock or unlock signal to the central locking pump. At the base of the unit there is a four pin plug. Two of the pins are permanent live, the other two I couldn't work out but all four have something to do with the two points below. The vacuum operated actuator that pushes/pulls the lock open/closed respectively has a switch in it. The actuator is also pushed/pulled by the action of pulling/pressing the lock pin in the top of the door. The switch recognises the position of the actuator and signals to the pump to either open or close the other locks. There is a small pin controlled by a solenoid at the bottom of the unit that (in my case) pops out momentarily when the locks are closed. I'd expected the pin to remain pushed out the whole time the locks are closed as it aligns with a part of the lock and looks like it would hold that part out of the way to prevent it engaging the latch release. The symptoms I have suggest that this part of the lock is being held down out of the way even when the the rest of the mechanism has unlocked but I can't see how as the pin doesn't stay pushed out. I thought I was getting somewhere yesterday with this as it seemed to be behaving properly but bad as ever today. This afternoon I've swapped the drivers lock/latch for another (out of my last car where it worked fine) today and that does the same. I really need to understand how the pin should operate and what readings I should be getting at each pin and when. To recap on the actual problem: Remotely lock the car with a door open then close the door. After about 15 - 30 seconds the c/l pump will run again to lock the door that was open because open latches can't be locked (this is how it should be I think). Remotely unlock the car and the lock on the door that was originally left open won't unlock properly and the door can't be opened. Close a door then lock from inside by pushing down the door pin. Pull the door pin back up and the same result as above occurs.
When your in a hurry it's far too easy to press the alarm fob a fraction before the door swings shut. I'd thought about getting rid of the pins to remove half the problem but want to enable auto lock with ignition on the alarm. I think that would cause the same issue also. This is doing my head in.
I think I've fixed it. I'm not going to shout WOOHOO yet as I thought I'd fixed the drivers side on Friday. Logically everything fits though so I'm quite hopeful. Basically I've been a bit of a plank and all problems have been due to the polo handles I fitted . I had them on my last mk3 with no problem for months then the passenger side stopped working shortly before I wrote it off so I never got to the bottom of it. The handles then went on my current car at the same time as a respray and I had all sorts of problems but there was loads of red herrings like cutting compound and masking tape in latches and around strickers that was interfering with the movement of the latches. Be warned though - with a bit of wear I think this could happen to anyone with this type of latches, original handles or not! It's a very easy fix if your door is open so it might be worth doing as a preventative measure. I'll wite up a lock/latch guide with details of this fix as soon as I have time.
Glad you've fixed that, here are some points; The key-operated twin microswitches at the top of each front door latch switch 12v to the central locking pump pcb, rather than earthing the lock/unlock inputs. Only one of the internal switches operates the central locking (the drivers'). That particular pin of the pump pcb must be a 'master' input. The small solenoid is used to prevent the latch being opened by raising the locking knob, provided that the system is 'dead-locked' from a key 'Lock' input. It's only energised when needed; after the pcb detects the internal locked/unlocked switch being opened, that sides' solenoid(s) are energised, and the air pump turned on, to oppose the 'illegal' attempt to unlock the car. The four pins of the connector at the base of the latch are 12v, earth, solenoid and lock status. The status line, which is Black (with a different trace colour for each door) connects to 12v or Ground depending on whether the latch is locked or unlocked - I can never remember which way around. The solenoid wires are Yellow on one side of the car and Yellow-red on the other. They rise to 12v with the solenoid energised.
Cheers Dougie. Shame your about 3 - 4 months late! I'd not had time to look into this properly until Friday and had worked out this morning much of what you say. The bit I couldn't figure out was the solenoid operated pin as beyond it just popping out and back in whilst locking. It did seem like it was positioned to be a deadlock but I had initially assumed I pushed into position and remained there until unlocked again. Thanks for clearing up that it reactivates when the door pin is pulled whilst armed. I'm going to write up everything I figured out - mechanism and electrics with some pictures. Please chip in with anything you can add or correct
Look forward to the write up. My driver's door is playing up and it's definitely the locking barrel / central locking electronics.
Chris, I've got a lot of work on at the moment so it will be a while until I can write something up properly. If your door pin is going up and down, the lock's making all the right noises and it sometimes works then I think there won't be too much wrong and it should be fixable quite easily. It could well be that something has worn a little which if correct I think it will be the area where the catch in the lock meets the latch. In my case this had happened on one of the locks which meant the catches final resting position when locked wasn't quite in the right place which in turn meant that the part of the mech that releases the catch could not seat correctly either. Something to try in the meantime... On the trailing of your door where the latch is you'll see the torx head bolts that secure the whole mech in place - I'm sure you're familiar with these. There should also be a plastic cap (At least there should be on a mk3 golf). If you pop off this cap there should be another torx head bolt. This bolt holds some of the critical parts of the lock in correct relationship to each other and you might be able to fix your problem from here. Loosen off this bolt - not much, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 a turn is sufficient - you DON'T want to take this out! Pull on your door pull as far as it will physically travel and while holding it out... Tighten up the bolt again TEST EVERYTHING BEFORE SHUTTING THE DOOR. Close the catch with your finger or similar and check both door pulls still open the latch. Close latch, lock/unlock by key then both door pulls Close latch, lock/unlock by pin then both door pulls Close latch, lock by pin, unlock with key then both door pulls Close latch, lock by key, unlock with pin then both door pulls If your in any doubt that the door won't open if you close it (locked/unlocked or not) do not close it. In this case the safest bet is to remove the door card as with mine it is possible to partly disassemble the lock mech in situ and release the latch. If you try this and have any problems or need any more insight quickly then give me a call. I'll PM you my number.
Thanks Rob. I have been investigating this further last weekend. I assumed it was the exterior handle, which has a wire attached to it which clearly is connected with the central locking. The problem I had was as I locked the driver's or passenger's door, the central locking would start to activate. The pins would move down, and then there would be a separate click on the driver's door, as if something had slipped or worn. It was difficult to say. I concluded the exterior handle was faulty, so whilst sorting out a pile of accumulating jobs, chanced on a car which was complete that had just come into the scrappy. Complete with keys So the driver's door handle was plundered, and the key, making it even easier to swap the orig barrel into the new handle. The clicking problem went away instantly. However, the door was still difficult to open, and sometimes wouldn't open with the exterior handle, and now the interior handle was getting unreliable. Door panel off again, full investigation of the mechanism movement. Once off, the latch on the trailing edge of the door was found to work independently for interior handle and exterior handle. The interior part of the mech was stiffening up due to rust, but the exterior handle didn't appear able to push the relevant lever far enough down to release the door from outside. It worked fine by hand, but by hand doesn't replicate the lesser sweep the door handle has. The latch was tested with the door open at all times. So conclusion now is the latch is worn (even though there was something wrong with the handle too), and so I'll be nipping back to the scrappy to get a latch off this car, in the hope that solves it.
Try adjusting via that torx bolt as suggested. This will should affect the amount of throw that the handle can provide. My issue was that the polo handles were holding the lever slightly out of position so that the mechanism didn't always return to it's normal resting position. Via the small bolt I reduced the amount of throw. You should be able to increase it easily off the car. I cleaned mine up with an spray engine degreaser/protector, then shed loads of wd40 and once nearly dry loads of GT50. Agitated everything as best as possible by moving all the mech about at each stage. Everything runs much smoother and quicker now. The latch releases with a decent clunk. I'd recommend you do all this even if you get a replacement lock. It's a quick job whilst you've got everything apart. I'm going to dare to put my door cards back on on Saturday.
