How much Timing on Your 2L 16V’s ??

How much timing do you run your 2 litre 16v's at and what spec engine cam profiles ?

Also do you regularly alter the timing for different Fuels?

My car is very very weather oriented.

Ianb

 

Mine's on 6 degs Ian, In this weather I can run 95 unleaded with no audible pinking.

9A 16v with KR cams

In the summer on REALLY hot days it sometimes pinks on Optimax in wide throttle opening,high gear situations

Vince set it up in July 2002 and the timing hasn't been checked/adjusted since.
Edited by: G_V_K

 

I used to run a bog standard one at 10 degrees, super unleaded with a drop of celly thinners in the tank. The engine was shit, drank more oil than petrol but went like fucking stink.........

 

i though the timing at idle had no effect on the rest of the range??
or am i talking poo

 

I think the timing does increase if you increase it at idle across the range.

I can run 9-10 degrees in the winter and boy does it make a difference to the characteristics. The car feels that much more alive the pick up across the rev ramge feels much sharper and this is all on 95 U/L.

I was surprised how much I could run. 6 degrees feels less energetic on my set up although in the hot summer months I will probably retard it.It was adjusted recently from 6 degrees.I wonder if the cam profiles make much difference to how much it should run at ?
Too much I believe looses power.

Anyone tried the new BP Ultimate in their Valver. Someone said the fuel is the same as the normal 97 Super you get at most BP service stns.They are both rated at 97 Octane.

Ianb

 

All we get in Northern Ireland is bog standard Super. Hence the 25 gallon drums of thinners in my garage. Must remember not to weld near them.....

 

so why when leaded stopped did all these k star/ vsam things come out..if we couldve just knocked the timing back a gnats cock..at the time it was said it was the only way to combat pinking

not trying to start a argument here...must bump up my timing and see

 

PS - use top gloss, not basecoat thinners.....

 

All depends on the individual car as AmD pointed out to me a few years ago.
Some pink worse than others and it also depends on fuel delivery ie how good it is.Many valvers run happily on normal K jet...it's a bit of a hot potato this one.

A flowed head helps as it reduces pre detonation due to less heat spots according to AmD.

Ianb

 

what about 2pack thinner

 

which blocks/ignition systems are people running?

I'm sure we all know this, but we can't forget that ...
the 9A has a much higher comprssion than the ABF, and cars with knock sensors will be able to run more advanced timing than those without, so it's worth knowing in order to be able to make comparisions.

 

and how old the engine is (i.e. how muck coke there is in the combustion chamber)

 

Vince has the VAG service tool that 'taps' into the wiring of the old valver and it shows the timing on a LCD display

I *think* it connects to the red terminal which you unplug to set the idle

He didn't use a timing light.

If the timing doesn't alter with distributor position, how else did I gain that 21bhp on my first visit to Stealth?

The timing was retarded to 3 degrees by the distributor, I did it as I didn't know of any other way at that time to stop it pinking. The car sounded flat as a phart.

Just by advancing to 6 degrees the power rose from 139 to 153bhp, the car was still pinking until he did the WUR mod and raised fuel pressure by shimming the valve on the front corner of the metering head. After then the output rose to 160bhp.

all the runs plotted on one graph, the 167bhp run was on a cool day.

See how the torque improved too
Edited by: G_V_K

 

when I get my car to stealth I'm going to ask for "a GVK please!"

 

Joe G took his there (same spec as mine) and he had fiddled with the WUR etc himself, his car was pretty spot on so he didn't gain much from the tune up.

Mine was a good example of how many cars are being used without using the true potential of their engine spec.

 

Would be VERY intrested in what he did!

 

As I've said, he adjusted the timing, did the WUR mod and raised fuel pressure, all while I stood there.

 

Sorry Gary, I meant Joe G, not Vince. From what I know the WUR is a case of drilling the tamper proof cap on the back and then turning the screw that's inside. I'm intrested in how far it needs turning, and how to tell you've got it right. If Joe got it right without a rolling road, this might be really useful info for peeps that can't get as far as Stealt very easily, but still have pinking problems.

 

Yeah, I've got a 9A with KR cams the same as Gary.

The timing scales directly with the distributor position, I set mine up by ear by listening for pinking and turning the dizzy back until it stopped. The ECU bit just implements the vacuum advance electronically, it's no more sphisticated than that.

Mine made 160BHP before the tune and 163 after. I'm pretty sure the VAG tool vince uses has a sensor which fits into the flywheel inspection port to get where TDC is and then a probe which clips over the HT leads.

Mine pinked in hot weather with dizzy set to what Vince said was 6 DEG BTDC so I've retarded it 2-3 degrees and it never pinks now and hasn't noticably lost any power. Gonna wind it back now it's a bit cooler.

I should get a timing light really, be nice to know exactly what it is set at.

Joe

 

Oh, as for the WUR, I kinda butchered the copper cap off the back and it's a 4mm allen key you wind. I can't remember which way I turned it now, seem to remember it not making much difference, tho I was going by plug colour which Vince says only works with leaded petrol?

Doubt you'd do much harm by winding it but I'd only use it as a last resort, you need a Rolling Road to make sure it's all spot on. I'd go a turn or two clockwise if you're really stuck.

Joe