Completed my first sprint this weekend in the Modified production class, fantastic fun, a lot different from trackdays, everyone very friendly and helpful, and a real good mix of cars. My class is modified from 1400 to 2000cc. The following restrictions apply; - Forced induction not allowed, (it moves me up into the 2000cc+ class) - original block has to be recognisable as a derivative of the original Apart from that it seems pretty much anything else is allowed engine wise, different head, internals, exhaust etc. Although I didn't come last in my class (which I half expected!) I did loose out to most of the 2000cc cars which had more grunt than me! So I'm after some engine recommendations, at the moment it's a standard 16v 1.8 I've trawled through most of the 2.0 threads in the Engines section but i thought I'd seek advice here as an engine for motorsport has different needs than for the road. My initial thought was to go for an ABF conversion with a ported head, better cams & exhaust manifold. This seems to be a fairly well trodden route, although there are conflicting views as to the low down torque with this setup. I need low down torque, but I also need higher revs and to keep the responsiveness of the 16v. Throttle bodies would be great, but the webber Alpha kit is nearly 2k inc vat which is a little pricey on top of averything else! (even if it does include the ECU, linkages etc.) Any advice greatly appreciated
have you seen chrismc (i think) mk2 16v on boddies, that looks sweet, sommat like that with a 2l bottom end (if his isnt already i have a feeling it is)would go a fairly well, i think he is putting out around the 200bhp mark tim
initially i would look for a 2 litre bottom end, either abf or 9a (abf are often easier to find it seems) with the flowed head, and std kr cams to start then a jetex 2.5" exhaust, four branch, and get it set up at stealth - that should give near on 180bhp i would change the gearbox for one from a 1.6 mk1 GTI and see how well it goes like that you can then look at changing to schrick 260 or 268 cams and you will keep the midrange but free up even more at the top end
Whatever you decide to do with the engine Carl, as Dex says, you need a lower ratio'd box or final drive for your sprinting. Tubthumped's got a 3.9FD in his Valver, he's got within 1bhp the same power as me but his car is quicker - If it wasn't for the fact I do a lot of motorway driving (and a 2Y box is low enough for that..) I'd get mine changed, it makes A LOT of difference. Tried and tested 2 litre 16v block, flowed head and careful cam choice should work well though.
Hi Congratulations on your first outing - its a big step, you will be poor forever more LOL I also had my first sprint of the year last weekend, also in modprod 1400-2000, and won by 4 seconds over a 60 sec course (Seat Ibiza 2L 16V) As others have said, you will need a 2L - mines like a 9A rather than an ABF but both are good. The spec will depend on how much you have to spend - something like gary has is a belting engine for very modest outlay so this would certainly get you much quicker. Gearbox wise -16V 2Y with 3.94 CWP and a quaife diff is a good place to start also but it depends what tracks you are using - no good going too short on the FD if you end up changing gear too many times, especially if those changes are between difficult corners. Its also possible to build the stronger 02A cable box into the same ratios as above if you need the extra strength (my engine was too much for the 020 box and ate it at Donny last year). One of the lads in our club has a Mk2 and was asking me if I knew where to get fibreglass panels from - where did you get yours from ? Cheers Rob
Thanks for the replies guys. Interesting what you say about the gearboxes, I have a cable change from a late Mk3 GTI 16v in the garage which I was going to fit, but the ratios may be a bit too tall ? The venues are a mix of tight twisty private road tracks, and racetracks like Goodwood & Brands... At the moment fitting the new Yoko 48R's and the eibach ARB has solved the problem of putting power down out of the corners so I'm going to stick without an LSD for now. So is it worth changing to an entire ABF engine and changing over to Digifant ? Or is it better sticking to to the old K jet system & head and just hunting down a 9a block. I guess the ABF is going to be less likely to need a rebuild than the older 9a... Also I read in the 2.0 posts that ABF needs reprogramming when you do any mods to the engine, is this right ? Thanks for your advice, all wisdom gained through someone elses experience is appreciated Rob - I'll try & dig out the fibreglass panel contact for you. Edited by: Carl S
Carl we had this chin wag before- maybe on the engines forum I think. Anyway, id go with whats been said so far, i.e 9a/3a/ABF bottom end, flowed head, decnet exhaust, 4 branch etc etc, twin exhaust cams if tight on dosh, or shricks(*) if not. All held together with ARP bolts & a baffled sump also. (* I'd go for Ianbs current spec cams & raised rev limit, as unlke some of the other profiles he still has decent midrange torque as well as the decent top end figs. Only thing is that for me personally I just dont see TBs as being worth the dosh unless you are building a very hot engine & on target for way more power than 200bhp, as you can achive that fig on the prehistoric K-jet. Yes yes drivabily & instant response & all that yadda yadda, but to me for 1500-2k over a k-jet set up I'd want a darn sight more than 200bhp, if getting to the 240+bhp area which is I'm told posible with big money spent, then yes I do see the appeal- altho more than a tad pricey. Another spec that would interest me is that I've got high comp JE pistons in my 1.9 & with stock cams & a flowed head they perform very well- nudging 190bhp & with 156lbft & darn good very drivable midrange, & given that the bore is the same as the 2.0, I'd be very interested to know how they would perform in a 2.0 The only slight concern maybe that given the high comp it might not be posible to run lairy cams because of valve/piston contact & to do so may mean compression needs lowering v slightly & thus may loose the high comp advantage, but in theory at least to me its an interesting spec.
Iguana...3A is an 8v block I agree to an extent with your views on ITBs..As my car stands its just a weekend/trackday toy & im happy with the output for now.. I am sure it has more to come as I need to fit ARP bolts/baffled sump & then have another tweak of the cam timing before it goes for a remap..It will allow me to rev it harder too.. For now 200BHP is essentially a starting point & can be built on slow time..K-Jet cars running similar power, such as IanBs, are more inconsistent as K-Jet is on its limit.. The improvement in response/driveability on the bodies should not be underestimated too.. 240+BHP is out of range for 99.9% of owners. Even RobTs' motor with ITBs is "only" 215BHP @ 8600rpm. Thats a big budget engine too
Depends on where you take it of course.. I'm damned sure at Stealth it would read significantly higher knowing how strong it pulls.
iguana, yes we did have a chat about this a while ago but now I'm getting beaten by the 2.0 Escort boys I need to do something about it !! [:^(] (I did manage to beat two highly modified MG's and at least one 2.0 Escort though... Chris, the response of TB's is what appeals. A Citroen AX GT was racing on a 1400 with TB's on Sunday and it didn't half shift out of the corners, won it's class by miles !
Very true Bill, dont mean to have Stealth RR blinkers on, just quoting his figs from his RR vid clip Edit: Bill is the man you want to talk to if you are thinking of Throttle Bodies Carl Edited by: chrismc
It's worth mentioning that just bolting a set of 268/276 Schrick cams in a 9A engine with flowed head with the thought that it'll be the "same as IanB's" doesn't work
Just rung around at lunchtime, a VW breakers has a 6a engine from an Audi 80 for 250 (minus head) is this a good price? or good way to go?
'Only' 215hp, dude you crack me up. My engine made 238hp on an engine dyno.....and its built for midrange with a big slug of 170ftlb so I've no idea where you get the 8600rpm from......change the 45's for 48's and you get another 17hp on top. Yes it was expensive but its a mighty motor - hopefully you will see soon Rob Edited by: RobT
Well actually using a flippin' vernier pully & a good bit of RR time to properly set the cams up might have helped a bit tho 'eh Gary! not just bung 'em, no vernier & quick set up & "oh they are crap".... You could always go down to see TSR for the set up anyway....
Please dont get defensive Rob , I know it is a fantastic engine.. I was quoting the figures from the JBS RR day, but now realise it says 215BHP/8600rpm! not 215BHP "@" 8600rpm..bit confusing My point of "only" 215BHP was to emphasise that 16v VW motors that give 240BHP at the flywheel are somewhat rare & by no means cheap.. Looking forward to seeing how your car goes soon!
Read what I wrote mr Lizard, I'm saying that without careful set up and a 'thing' you don't get the results from the cams that you expect. And besides,I seem to remember on Chrismc's car when Matt had it, Vince swung the vernier through the whole range of adjustment and it made sweet FA difference to the power output, only altered the power band. Edited by: GVK
