Mk1 'Field Car' .... on the loose again

Chris Eyre · 5th July 06, 19:09

Late last year I did one of those rally school-type days with Pentti Arikkala. I’ve left foot braked for over 10 years, but I was curious to see what his take on it all was, as indeed was a good mate of mine (reasonably ok as it turned out).

Anyway, rather than using top line flash cars, Pentti uses what’s required for the job ie road standard tired Mondeos (4x4 + FWD with dual control for LFB) and a Cosworth 4x4. Anything will slide...

We came away from the rallyschool, thinking "£100-worth of scrap, and you're away" and realised that a Mk1 Driver I’d just bought for parts had a future as a FWD “field car”. And it meant plenty of time could be had practising those loose surface skills we'd learnt.

It came with 8 wheels & some cracked tyres with a bit of life left. Anything not needed was sold, and a deal struck with a local farmer. Costs were kept to the absolute minimum – a much needed tank and other bits sourced from VW Singh (cheers).

"Garnish" with an MOT, run it round on the road to make sure nothing falls off, experiment with a few old suspension sets and ARBs to convert an understeering shed into something more neutral - and check the forecast: sunny

One Mk1 Driver c/w kerbed and semi-square BBS's - just the job

Nice deserted airfield with broken surface:

Lay out a few cones:

Starters orders:

Commence the left foot brakery:

“Check me vids”

(Bit shaky – my apologies

- novice filmers

)

Aiming to dab the brake with throttle still down for a whiff of oversteer on every turn… easier said than done!

And repeat until the novelty wears off

....It doesn’t…

Just a quick check on the tyres. Oops, one Pirelli – was a old road tyre, now looks like a mullered rally tyre

. Never mind, swap it to the back!

“You never get tired of going sideways:”

Well we didn’t .....

Kingsley · 5th July 06, 21:25

looks like fun! where is that airfield?? looks familiar

mk1 · 5th July 06, 22:24

That poor mk1, i have to admit though that did look like fun!!

Ben S · 6th July 06, 12:44

great stuff man!

maybe if u can afford it get a camera mount for the in car vids

hc-animal · 6th July 06, 17:31

you ever done any autotests? im always happy if i can get through a set of 4 tyres in a day!

fthaimike · 6th July 06, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben S

great stuff man!

maybe if u can afford it get a camera mount for the in car vids

I have some pics of one i made to fit a mk1 head rest (was cheap & worked fantastic):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9.../DCP_5510s.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9.../DCP_5509s.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9.../DCP_5507s.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9.../DCP_5506s.jpg

GVK · 6th July 06, 18:44

Looks like fun Chris!

seanlazyass · 6th July 06, 18:48

Mines almost identical Mike. I used exactly the same idea with the head rest. And the scrutineers at trackdays have always been fine with it.

Shame I've got buckets now!

Sean

Keith R · 6th July 06, 19:12

Looked like fun, Chris! Nice little Mk1 too.

Must say, I've never had the balls to try left foot braking. I can see where it could benefit me in a number of situations, but it's finding an appropriate time and place to give it a go.

fthaimike · 6th July 06, 19:53

I popped down to Llandow track on the weekend & watched a bike tarckday & when i was leaving i noticed just across the road they had the same kind of setup but on concrete with a dusting of gravel & watched som pug205 etc doing the business & it looked like hard work but fun.

dUff · 6th July 06, 20:01

Quality Chis , cheap motorsport action , plenty of laugh per pound ! looks a right hoot

seatboy77 · 6th July 06, 20:43

nice sliding action looks like a fwd can be fun afterall

badger5 · 7th July 06, 07:29

i used to lfb in the jetta, definately took a while to get the hang of it... but no longer able to cos of poxy drive by wire and modern electronic on the ibiza. :(

looks like fun chris..
what did you think of th epenti arikila day? thought about doing that one myself

seatboy77 · 7th July 06, 08:26

why cant you lfb in a live by wire throttle car ?

Chris Eyre · 7th July 06, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by hc-animal

you ever done any autotests? im always happy if i can get through a set of 4 tyres in a day!

Yes - one of the best cheap learning environments around IMO. I used to nip down to Kwik Fit to grab used (free) Fiesta 135 13s for scrubbing on the Jetta rears! I’ve competed against Russ Swift a few times – inter club stuff, not Brit c/ship!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith R

Must say, I've never had the balls to try left foot braking. I can see where it could benefit me in a number of situations, but it's finding an appropriate time and place to give it a go.

Yep, it’s the leap of faith in moving your foot laterally from clutch to brake that’s the hard bit (LFB in karting’s usually fine for people). Takes a while – drive an automatic if you can (but manually shift to keep your brain in manual mode), then step over to manual to work out how to time the foot movements with necessary clutchery for gear changes. I learnt in manuals, but was just doing it gradually – auto would speed it up.

I wouldn’t encourage it in the heat of battle without heaps of quiet practice TBH – your natural reflexes could result in utter confusion, panic footery (and potential accidents) as the driver retreats to known territory of RFB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger5

i used to lfb in the jetta, definately took a while to get the hang of it... but no longer able to cos of poxy drive by wire and modern electronic on the ibiza. :(

looks like fun chris..
what did you think of the penti arikila day? thought about doing that one myself

Good I’d say, but deffo focused on loose surface action, less so on tarmac/race which may be why you’d want to do it. Happy to enlighten further as/when. I signed up since I wanted to check “the Boss’s” views and thoughts on my LFB in general, and was trying to avoid Xmas present-style rally school days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seatboy77

why cant you lfb in a live by wire throttle car ?

The ECUs are programmed to open waste gates / reduce power on N/A when they twig that your’re on the throttle and brake. It’s a damn nuisance, and the ECU programming is on all modern VAG cars from non-turbo Lupos to Golfs, to Seats to …..

I wouldn’t rush to buy a car like this TBH until I knew I could bypass it.

vw_singh · 7th July 06, 11:16

Hahaha! Slidey slidey! Glad you made gud use of those old driver bits. Thanks for helping me strip the golfy too.

Gurds

badger5 · 7th July 06, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by seatboy77

why cant you lfb in a live by wire throttle car ?

because the ecu closes the throttle and opens the DV, killing the motor as it thinks its "wrong" to press both pedals. :(

seatboy77 · 8th July 06, 17:09

oh modern cars huh they take the fun out of driving these days. wish i could learn this art.

Chris Eyre · 28th September 06, 17:35

Another day of gratuitous field car action last Sunday so a few pics & vids to amuse.

Basically a mate & myself hire out an airfield off a farmer for a nominal sum when it isn’t being used for anything else.

The main reason for doing it is to drive something which continuously moves around and is short of grip. I’ve done this sort of thing in the past on grass autotests, but not for some years and lately started to feel a bit out of tune.

The car seems really well set up. It’s 1.3 Driver…

… with GTI roll bars and a Jamex spring & damper kit on it, yet it’s so neutral, changes direction / poise well with power on / power off inputs, and also left foot brakes well for a change of direction.

Here was the car before the first day we did back in July:

No need to bother washing it or anything like that (!) so it just got worse:

Nice cheapo interior (!)

We spent an hour laying out a proper course this time, instead of just having the elk test on the previous occasion.

Turned out to be a great course, and lots of fun and learning / practice had.

The main difference this time were longer sweepers into elk tests, where you need to shed a load of speed on the way in, turn in on the brakes (and by that I mean sit on them when you turn in.... and theeen lift) and then straighten up / opp lock as the car oversteers due to the weight transfer.

Sweepers were deliberately located towards the centre of the airfield to allow plenty of room for spins!

With the layout being a lap format, sometimes 5 - 10 laps were done consecutively, which translates to 5 to 10 mins driving and a few great 'sessions' were had towards the end.

Oddly, as soon as the camera came out, whoever was driving tended to go to pieces!

I left thinking, 'yeah, the gravel track day - this makes perfect sense' but I somehow don't see the whole thing taking off, like circuit track days, sadly

because it could be a scream.

Definitely the sort of thing to initially go looking for via your local motor club tho'.

A bit of lappery (keep an eye on the brake lights!):

Best pic of the day - note little cone under OSF wheel! (yep, car was travelling from left to right !!

)

Brief gratuitous sideways vid

:

More vids but Photobucket won’t take more than 100MB… Trying YouTube… (watch this space)

Thick with mud ! Proper day!

gillm · 28th September 06, 19:08

that looks great fun mate .

vegabass · 28th September 06, 20:43

Crazy stuff!

Does the farmer know you do that?

Crispy 8V · 28th September 06, 22:52

great to see the 1300cc can still shift,

GVK · 29th September 06, 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by gillm

that looks great fun mate .

Doesn't it just

GVK · 29th September 06, 06:41

Chris, YouTube are 100 meg (10 min) limit too ....

vw_singh · 29th September 06, 09:37

WASH THAT DAMN CAR!! Hehe! Poor golfy!
Certainly looks like your having a good time. Car seems very well behaved indeed.

Gurds

5th July 06, 19:09	#1
Chris Eyre Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Mk1 hedonism Posts: 32,187	Mk1 'Field Car' .... on the loose again Late last year I did one of those rally school-type days with Pentti Arikkala. I’ve left foot braked for over 10 years, but I was curious to see what his take on it all was, as indeed was a good mate of mine (reasonably ok as it turned out). Anyway, rather than using top line flash cars, Pentti uses what’s required for the job ie road standard tired Mondeos (4x4 + FWD with dual control for LFB) and a Cosworth 4x4. Anything will slide... We came away from the rallyschool, thinking "£100-worth of scrap, and you're away" and realised that a Mk1 Driver I’d just bought for parts had a future as a FWD “field car”. And it meant plenty of time could be had practising those loose surface skills we'd learnt. It came with 8 wheels & some cracked tyres with a bit of life left. Anything not needed was sold, and a deal struck with a local farmer. Costs were kept to the absolute minimum – a much needed tank and other bits sourced from VW Singh (cheers). "Garnish" with an MOT, run it round on the road to make sure nothing falls off, experiment with a few old suspension sets and ARBs to convert an understeering shed into something more neutral - and check the forecast: sunny One Mk1 Driver c/w kerbed and semi-square BBS's - just the job Nice deserted airfield with broken surface: Lay out a few cones: Starters orders: Commence the left foot brakery: “Check me vids” (Bit shaky – my apologies - novice filmers ) Aiming to dab the brake with throttle still down for a whiff of oversteer on every turn… easier said than done! And repeat until the novelty wears off ....It doesn’t… Just a quick check on the tyres. Oops, one Pirelli – was a old road tyre, now looks like a mullered rally tyre . Never mind, swap it to the back! “You never get tired of going sideways:” Well we didn’t ..... __________________ ________________ Track car \| Field car \| VWMotorsport.info \| SeatSport.info Forum search tips here. If you have a general question about your car, please don't PM - post a thread, so that others can benefit too. Last edited by Chris Eyre; 11th October 07 at 23:02.

5th July 06, 21:25	#2
Kingsley Forum Junkie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,176	looks like fun! where is that airfield?? looks familiar __________________

6th July 06, 17:31	#5
hc-animal Forum User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bournemouth Posts: 128	you ever done any autotests? im always happy if i can get through a set of 4 tyres in a day! __________________ 1990 diesel tampax 1983 lhd gti 1975 mallock

6th July 06, 18:44	#7
GVK Forum Junkie Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: underground lair! Posts: 20,155	Looks like fun Chris! __________________ mk2 VR6 turbo GT3582R 1.06 on Bosch Motronic 3.8.1 ECU.

6th July 06, 18:48	#8
seanlazyass Paid Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,047	Mines almost identical Mike. I used exactly the same idea with the head rest. And the scrutineers at trackdays have always been fine with it. Shame I've got buckets now! Sean __________________ mk2 "RE2000 GTI Engineering"

5th July 06, 22:24	#3
mk1 Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Location: Surrey Posts: 21	That poor mk1, i have to admit though that did look like fun!!

6th July 06, 12:44	#4
Ben S Forum Junkie Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Basvegas <--- Posts: 2,921	great stuff man! maybe if u can afford it get a camera mount for the in car vids

6th July 06, 19:12	#9
Keith R Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 646	Looked like fun, Chris! Nice little Mk1 too. Must say, I've never had the balls to try left foot braking. I can see where it could benefit me in a number of situations, but it's finding an appropriate time and place to give it a go. __________________

6th July 06, 19:53	#10
fthaimike Paid Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: S.Wales Posts: 17,152	I popped down to Llandow track on the weekend & watched a bike tarckday & when i was leaving i noticed just across the road they had the same kind of setup but on concrete with a dusting of gravel & watched som pug205 etc doing the business & it looked like hard work but fun. __________________ 8v Appreciation Society "If only everything in life had an 8v...."

6th July 06, 20:01	#11
dUff Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Modus operandi Posts: 1,701	Quality Chis , cheap motorsport action , plenty of laugh per pound ! looks a right hoot __________________ Mk2 Ring wagon, made for the ring and nothing else

6th July 06, 20:43	#12
seatboy77 Forum User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 848	nice sliding action looks like a fwd can be fun afterall __________________ if tommorows world is now why are we not in flying cars?

7th July 06, 07:29	#13
badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: nr Glos Posts: 5,326	i used to lfb in the jetta, definately took a while to get the hang of it... but no longer able to cos of poxy drive by wire and modern electronic on the ibiza. :( looks like fun chris.. what did you think of th epenti arikila day? thought about doing that one myself __________________ BADGER 5 LTD: PERFORMANCE TUNING RACE PROVEN PRODUCTS & HONEST ADVICE: Contact:07976 800775 or 01453 827936 Fax-0870 0561360 Bespoke Big Turbo conversions,Forge,Ferodo,AP,Custom Code,REVO,H&R,Eibach,Vibratechnik,SPEC,Compmotive, DTA,Jenvey,Brembo brake kits,EBC,Koni,Neuspeed, and much much more... http://www.badger-5.com email me at:bill@badger5.co.uk

7th July 06, 08:26	#14
seatboy77 Forum User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 848	why cant you lfb in a live by wire throttle car ? __________________ if tommorows world is now why are we not in flying cars?

7th July 06, 11:16	#16
vw_singh Paid Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,505	Hahaha! Slidey slidey! Glad you made gud use of those old driver bits. Thanks for helping me strip the golfy too. Gurds __________________ As sponsered by Heinz Tomato Soup. Click for my build thread http://clubgti.com/forum/showthread....t=mars+red+mk1

8th July 06, 17:09	#18
seatboy77 Forum User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 848	oh modern cars huh they take the fun out of driving these days. wish i could learn this art. __________________ if tommorows world is now why are we not in flying cars?

28th September 06, 17:35	#19
Chris Eyre Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Mk1 hedonism Posts: 32,187	Mk1 field car's been on the loose again... Another day of gratuitous field car action last Sunday so a few pics & vids to amuse. Basically a mate & myself hire out an airfield off a farmer for a nominal sum when it isn’t being used for anything else. The main reason for doing it is to drive something which continuously moves around and is short of grip. I’ve done this sort of thing in the past on grass autotests, but not for some years and lately started to feel a bit out of tune. The car seems really well set up. It’s 1.3 Driver… … with GTI roll bars and a Jamex spring & damper kit on it, yet it’s so neutral, changes direction / poise well with power on / power off inputs, and also left foot brakes well for a change of direction. Here was the car before the first day we did back in July: No need to bother washing it or anything like that (!) so it just got worse: Nice cheapo interior (!) We spent an hour laying out a proper course this time, instead of just having the elk test on the previous occasion. Turned out to be a great course, and lots of fun and learning / practice had. The main difference this time were longer sweepers into elk tests, where you need to shed a load of speed on the way in, turn in on the brakes (and by that I mean sit on them when you turn in.... and theeen lift) and then straighten up / opp lock as the car oversteers due to the weight transfer. Sweepers were deliberately located towards the centre of the airfield to allow plenty of room for spins! With the layout being a lap format, sometimes 5 - 10 laps were done consecutively, which translates to 5 to 10 mins driving and a few great 'sessions' were had towards the end. Oddly, as soon as the camera came out, whoever was driving tended to go to pieces! I left thinking, 'yeah, the gravel track day - this makes perfect sense' but I somehow don't see the whole thing taking off, like circuit track days, sadly because it could be a scream. Definitely the sort of thing to initially go looking for via your local motor club tho'. A bit of lappery (keep an eye on the brake lights!): Best pic of the day - note little cone under OSF wheel! (yep, car was travelling from left to right !! ) Brief gratuitous sideways vid : More vids but Photobucket won’t take more than 100MB… Trying YouTube… (watch this space) Thick with mud ! Proper day! __________________ ________________ Track car \| Field car \| VWMotorsport.info \| SeatSport.info Forum search tips here. If you have a general question about your car, please don't PM - post a thread, so that others can benefit too. Last edited by Chris Eyre; 11th October 07 at 23:03.

28th September 06, 19:08	#20
gillm Moderator & Regiona* Host Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: yeovil somerset Posts: 5,040	that looks great fun mate . __________________ mk5 gti revo stage 2 mk1 9a track toy mk2 vr6

28th September 06, 20:43	#21
vegabass Forum User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 486	Crazy stuff! Does the farmer know you do that? __________________

29th September 06, 06:41	#24
GVK Forum Junkie Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: underground lair! Posts: 20,155	Chris, YouTube are 100 meg (10 min) limit too .... __________________ mk2 VR6 turbo GT3582R 1.06 on Bosch Motronic 3.8.1 ECU.

29th September 06, 09:37	#25
vw_singh Paid Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,505	WASH THAT DAMN CAR!! Hehe! Poor golfy! Certainly looks like your having a good time. Car seems very well behaved indeed. Gurds __________________ As sponsered by Heinz Tomato Soup. Click for my build thread http://clubgti.com/forum/showthread....t=mars+red+mk1