Don't you just love projects where you collect parts for them, picked up an ABF engine for my Mk1 couple of years back, knife edged diesel crank from Vagabonds that Hotgolf made, JE pistons & Scat Rods from Mike H which will take it out to 2.1 & Badger 5's dth itb complete kit Then I saw these pics from INA of the dry sump kit that he had developed. Kit components Well they say good things come to those who wait which is just as well because I put my order in for this almost a year ago (Feb 2011), got a lot of the kit (pics below) & getting pretty excited because Issam called me last week to say the machine shop had almost finished making the last bit (oil pump to engine bracket) so should get the rest soon. Courier managed to ruin my xmas by loosing the last package Issam sent so he's been busy recompiling that parts list. Anyway enough of me, we all like pics In truth still waiting for a lot of the bits to make this fit my specific application : Oil Pump drive hub inserts into the fluidampr pulley and houses the gear Oil Pump Gear Oil Pump drive Gear Belt for the oil pump Bracket for the Oil Pump ABA Alternator bracket XRP 12-AN line for the pump to the pan Accessory ABA belt When it arrives I'll do a mock up on the engine & post some pics up
so wheres the oil cooler? and oil suply tank? baffle plate too? and how many oil pumps does it include? I'd expect a scavange pump and feed pump if it was my kit. bearing in mind without the cooler, baffle plate and tank your just feeding the engine hot, aireated oil and you require differing pressures depending on the pumps job.
Dry sumping is a pretty bespoke affair. You don't always need an oil cooler with a dry sump as the oil capacity is typically a lot more than the standard engine would hold. Plus sizing the oil cooler would depend on where you can locate is, whether is on the pressure or scavenge side, air flow to it etc. Oil tank is also dependant on what your doing with the car, sprints or endurance for example, also packaging is a big influence on what type of tank, shape and size. The oil pump in the pictures is a 3 stange pump, 1 pressure and 2 scavenge.
More info Sorry guys about not answering questions earlier. Yes there is only one pump which as studentlife correctly said is a 3 stage pump, 1 pressure & 2 scavenge & is supplied by Moroso. I did find a detailed parts drawing of it on line which I will post up later. I've taken some more pics of the sump, Issam is the 'expert' on his design & I'm happy to go with what he has produced, regards any extra baffle plates maybe skint_golfer can post up a bit more tech info about pros cons etc. For clarity the parts in the picture is not the complete kit, whilst I am still awaiting parts from Issam I will be sourcing some of the other parts myself. At the time I ordered this I didn't have enough money to also order the dry sump tank & lines although he did offer to supply that as well. The tank he suggested was Moroso #22687 which is a 6 quart with breather. It is also my intention to run an oil cooler but I will wait until I've fitted the engine conversion (this is an ABF going into a Mk1) & have a radiator in place that works well with the itb's, I'll then be able to see what room I have left for mounting the oil cooler etc.
Interesting setup. I designed my own VW based Dry Sump last year for BEng dissertation, and I would have to agree with "studentlife". It's a good starter kit if you're looking to get into it but I would deffo expect more than 2 stacks in the pump, a sump pan that wasn't designed with a set square, and some kind of centrifuge or device to separate oil and air as previously mentioned. Where do you plan to take main Oil In line to engine? I assume through the oil filter housing or thereabouts?
Ref separating oil & air this is taken from the Moroso website ref their dry sump tanks of which I will be getting #22687. "Moroso Dry Sump Tanks separate air quickly from oil, prevent foaming and insure a continuous supply of oil to the pump under all racing conditions! As the oil enters the tank, it rotates around the tank wall and deaerates by spreading over a large surface area, allowing trapped air bubbles to dissipate quickly. This then lets the restored oil flow easily to the bottom outlet of the tank where it can return to the pump and engine." Yes top middle of this pic is a Mocal sandwich plate for that purpose.
Ah ok, so the Moroso tank simply has the Oil Intake offset to the side of the tank so the oil is forced to swirl down the side of the tank as it enters. That should work well, I designed my swirl pot in the same way - Diss title dictated I needed a separate centrifuge too. Sandwich plate is a good plan. I don't know if that one lets you retain the oil-water heat exchanger or whether you're planning to run a standalone oil cooler somewhere. Leaving the OEM one in will help in heating the oil up to operating temp as the dry sump pump will pull it away from the hot engine parts too fast to rely on the crankcase to heat the oil quickly.
I had a chat with Issam about this the other night, the system I have (ie using this paticular sandwich plate) means that I will not utilise the stock oil-water heat exchanger. Regards running a standalone cooler that had been my intention but Issam advices that I run the car first to see what the actual oil temperatures are at, he factors in running the tank in the boot using stainless lines & the suface area of the lines will dissipate heat & as you have mentioned the oil does not sit around in the sump. Your project sounds interesting, good luck with it, as part of that do you actually have to get the parts made ie produce a working example or just on paper?
It was just a design project really - I have the writeup somewhere but it's 100 pages long! I work for a machining company now so I could get all the gears etc cut and the housings but it would probably cost hundreds of pounds. Yeah, I'm sure the oil will soak heat into the tank and lines quite fast (esp if they're Ally) so that will work quite well. Keep us updated when you get to install it! if you're taking the main oil in line to the gallery at the oil filter location, what are you going to do about the filters and also oil temp/pressure sensors? Jon.
IDid have a good chat with Issam on the phone last night & part of the delay is that he has consolidated his range of dry sump kits from 'custom' (we can do anything you want) to being based around a number of base setups. To that end he is now basing his kits around an ARE 3120 which is a 3 stage pump instead of the Moroso 3 stage pump which is pictured above. This is the ARE website : http://www.drysump.com/3120pump.htm What this means to me is that Issam has designed & produced a bracket to fit the ARE 3120 to my ABF engine & will be sending an ARE 3120 pump out to me with this mounting bracket + Oil Pump drive hub (inserts into the fluidampr pulley pictured above) Oil Pump Gear Oil Pump drive Gear Belt for the oil pump ABA Alternator bracket Accessory ABA belt + some lines & fittings. ARE also sell Dry Sump Tanks & as I've said prev above whilst Issam did give me the option at the time of my original order to include the tank in the kit I shall get one at a later date (direct from ARE).
Issam contacted me to say that he dispatched two parcels to me last Thursday (02 Aug), one containing the balance of the parts I'm waiting for & the second parcel containing an oil tank free of charge to make up for the delay the kit has taken to put together, which is a kind jesture & is appreciated. I don't have / am waiting for a tracking number so don't know where abouts in the world my parcels currently are but hopefully they arrive soon & I can post some more pics up
looking for dry sump parts for my A4, runs a 2.2 20v Turbo 5 cylinder AAN, will be 11,000rpm and 800+bhp easily capable, can you help? cheers, Sean 07912 06 44 75
don't think he's the supplier of the kits fella, probs best to google INA dry sump kits. I'm still quite worried about the flats on that sump pan - they just won't assist the oil to run to the pickups in any way. Mine was much more curved: I realise it's harder to fabricate with a curved bottom, but the oil would be picked up so much easier than waiting for it to run down a flat or shallow gradient. Mine has 3 pickups and 3 banks as it was for VR6 engine. I even flow tested it too and you'd be surprised how much difference the curved sections made. Anyways, all the best with your build - perhaps with the engine tilted and mounted in situ that sump pan won't cause any issues
