Historic Vehicle Status...

Probably all MK1 Golfs are now close to being elligible for this and maybe even the earliest MK2's sometime soon too?

Although it's connected to the MOT free / Road Tax exempt side of things, there's another aspect to it that I certainly wasn't aware of until recently.

It's to do with engine changes.

Not talking about what's deemed to be substantive changes and such, that's another debate.

Not talking about getarounds or not bothering telling them etc. either, but doing it as it's officially supposed to be done.

My engine circumstances are that I've replaced the original / standard 1983 1.8 DX with a 1985 GTiE RE1900 that stated life as a 1.8 EV.

Other than the engine number and capacity they are effectively the same engine / cylinder number / fuel, blah, blah, blah.

Today, to have the V5C changed to reflect the change the DVLA would require cetain types of written evidence... things like garage letterheads, insurance reports and such.

Nothing too onerous but if like me you're someone who got the engine privately and are doing the work yourself the DVLA don't seem to be happy with just a plain old sales receipt, formal written or otherwise.

On the 1st of April when my car can be registered for 'Historic' status, I still have to notify an engine number / cc change, but as long as they're deemed to not be substantive (you fill in a form certifying this) they then no longer require any of the required types of evidence.

Apparently this concession was won by the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs way back in 2011.

They argued successfully that an engine replacement to a 40+ year old vehicle was a 'minor' change bearing in mind it'd be a common enough thing to need done at that age, plus potential replacement engines would likely be as old in themselves / probably have no formal history that can be proven.

Might seem a small thing but worth knowing.

I've had 3 months of toing and froing before having my change accepted, had I known about any of the above before starting the process I'd have been wiser waiting to April.

 

If you take the guidelines on the DVLA website a four cylinder engine swap is not deemed a change to be notified. I think you are overthinking this.

 

Nope...

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registration-certificate

 

Yes, agreed but that has nothing to do with getting historic status.

 

You still have to notify an engine change, regardless of a vehicle having historic status, it being so merely does away with the requirement to supply the evidence they ordinarily want.

 

Zender overthinking something?! Naaaaaaa :-)

Agree that all swaps should be notified to the right people though. Love these folk who "forget" to declare thier car now has about 4 times the original power presumably to carry on getting cheaper insurance.

I dont feel that an engine swap should change historic status tho. Surely the frame age is the tell

 

An engine / cc change won't affect your eligibility to apply for Historic status when the time comes, but it may impact on what you are required to show to be granted it.

That means providing one of two things, either a valid MOT or a Form V112 in which you declare you are MOT exempt.

If your vehicle has had an engine / cc change an MOT exemption is dependant on whether or not the changes are considered 'substantive' or not.

As said in the original post, that's another debate.

As also said in the original post if you submit an engine / cc change before you are eligible to apply for historical status the DVLA will be entitled to ask for certain forms of supporting written proof.

What I highlighted was if you make the same application after being granted Historical status they waiver that aspect, it doesn't mean you are no longer required to notify an engine/ cc change, you are.

If it turns out your engine / cc changes are deemed to exclude you from being MOT exempt, you can still apply for Road Tax free / Historic status when the time comes and be given it, you'll just need a valid MOT.

If you think about the reasons why DVLA are interested in engine /cc changes, one is to do with rates of taxation.

For the age that MK1/2 Golfs are (pre-2001) those rates are based on capacity, not emissions or bands... if below 1549cc you pay considerably less than above, so for example putting a 1.8 GTI engine into your 1.1 C will require you to pay higher road tax, though the reverse would also be applicable and you'd pay less.

Now that Historical status is within reach of many MK1s that last paragraph is becoming a moot point, Road Tax free status is given regardless of previous tax rate.

 

As I said before, over thinking it. When I changed my old car to historic status all I had to do was go to the post office and hand the form in. There were no checks made on the car at all.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t advise the DVLA of an engine change but realistically how many people actually do, especially when it’s difficult to do. The only time it’s likely to be an issue is if you get stopped at a DVLA check site. Even then they are only going to look hard if it’s a very obvious change like a V6 into a MK2 or Mk1. ​

 

Nor will there be... it's not the Post Offices role to check your car, they accept either your valid MOT or a form V112 that it's legitimately MOT exempt at face value.

Hence why you complete a declaration, if it isn't accurate that's on the person signing it and any consequences.

And back to the original post... I wasn't commenting on what people do or don't do as a getaround or choose what to declare, that's their decision.

My choice is to do it properly and for the benefit of others wanting to do likewise, if circumstances allow, highlighted the advantages of notifying engine / cc changes after Historic status has been given.

It's not about what I think, I'm not giving an opinion, all of the above is about what you are required to do.

 

Keep going chaps..

 

Or if you crash it/it's get nicked.

Plod would have a field day if they popped the bonnet of a 1.3 golf to find an undeclared fire breathing r32 staring back at them, especially if Mr Insurer thinks it's a 1.3 also

 

Having on the V5 as a 1.3 and insuring it as something else are two different things. If it’s all declared on the insurance then you are covered. I call tell you for nothing that “plod” would not bother in the slightest if it was a 1.3 on the V5 but it was properly insured. What’s on the V5 is not a police matter, what’s on the insurance is.

 

Come on now, back to overthinking, please - I'm invested...

 

I think I know the answer here, but is it possible to declare a new engine at the same time as changing the V5 to historic status (without having to provide the evidence for taxed/non historic vehicle)?

My VW is in it's 41st year now and after a phone call to the DVLA, it can be changed to Historic on the 1st April 2025. I'm eager to get it on the road again though and having to declare the new engine (which is within the substantial change guidelines) after I've send the V5 off to do the historic status will delay things. Not the end of the world, but thought I'd ask people's thoughts.

Cheers,
HJ.

 

I was going to say it's funny you should ask... I've just renewed the historical / tax exempt status on the car the original post was related to, but then April of every year will probably be when most owners are thinking about this, so I suppose not.

Before going on, it was renewed on-line and completely painless / the work of a few minutes.

Going to stress again though, you will be making a renewed declaration identical to your initial one that you continue to fulfil all the criteria... its not difficult to follow, but you do need to read and understand it so as not to wrongly declare anything, thereby voiding your exemption (from either tax or MOT) if someone has reason to look into it further.

12 months tax for pre 1/3/2001 cars will be £220 for those below 1549cc and £360 for those above in a few days time (WEF 1/4/2025), so not small amounts and the tax people will be keen that you are paying it if required and also at the correct rate, if for example an engine cc change demands the additional £140.

Look at your insurance schedule, it'll be unusual if there's not a stipulation that you vehicle must have a current / valid MOT (or be properly exempt) inorder for cover to apply.

If your MOT exemption doesn't stand scrutiny, for example post a claim, potential opportunity for them to say you're not covered.

To answer your question, and assuming things haven't changed since the original post, I'd personally wait and get your car solely classed as historic first.

Don't complicate things by trying to get an engine change included as I did (I'm assuming your circumstances mean you can do it this way).

In theory that shouldn't take more than a few weeks, then once you've the updated V5C in your hand, notify the engine change and it should mean no evidence is required to prove anything.

I've used a lot of shoulds and shouldn'ts deliberately, that's because in my experience if the DVLA can mess it up they'll have a good try.

You're right to want to do things correctly / notify an engine change.

 

Thank you ZZ. I really appreciate your detailed reply/information.

I think I will get the vehicle classed as Historic first as you suggested. Then submit the engine change when I have the new V5, then apply for the MOT exemption when the new engine is on the V5.

This way may take longer, but should be the best way to navigate the DVLA's rules. Best not to give them any avenue to stall, demand more information or money.

Thanks again.

 

Memory isn't good, so check... MOT exemption is automatic at a certain age, doesn't need a formal application as you need to do with the tax.

That being the case your declaration, when the time comes, that the new engine falls within the 'not a substantial change' should suffice (plus if done post historic status being given) won't require you to provide formal proof.

Keep us updated, it's a while since I looked at this... may be misremembering / things could have changed.

 

Sure. As far as I can tell, MOT exemption is not currently automatic.

I have a V112 form, which when handed into the post office with V5 (and Historic Tax Status) will declare your vehicle MOT exempt.

I've gone from a 1700cc N/A engine, to a 1900cc N/A engine. Virtually the same and is not classed as a 'substantial change'. I would like to see the 1900 engine on the V5 before I get the MOT exemption and insurance ideally.

I'm happy to keep this post updated with how I get on. Fingers crossed it works out and this can help others too.

 

Dvla used to only want a written engineer / garage report if you were decreasing engine capacity due to you paying less tax.

 

So, a quick update.
Historic Tax Status has been done and the V5C should be back this week.

However, I may have an issue. I called the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs today (very helpful chap on the phone) to double check if I may have any problems changing the V5C engine details of a historic vehicle.

He confirmed that it should indeed be 'easier' to swap the engine over on the V5C, but said that the DVLA may still ask for things such as a letter from a garage.

This means I may need to be on the road in order to get to a garage for said letter. Which would mean submitting the V112 (MOT Exemption) and insuring the vehicle before swapping the engine on the V5C. Frustrating news.

I will of course inform the insurance that it has a bigger engine and hopefully this does not hinder changing the V5C afterwards.

Please let me know if you have any other advice Zender.