Help! My 16v is too low for the roads of Yorkshire

Discussion in 'Mk2' started by saladman, Jan 21, 2022.

  1. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Yep this is a great idea if you can get all the bits, nothing like a full refresh, no harm to get /borrow the front suspension strut socket (I think it’s 21mm) - it’s saves a lot of hassle and ensures you get them properly torqued/secured
     
  2. Cressa Paid Member Paid Member

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    21mm is the standard top nut. For some reason my new front top nuts were 22mm so I got this item below.
    You are welcome to borrow it if needed when the time comes, as it is easy to post
    And there is the smaller awkward tool as said for the front top mounts.
    My springs are slightly lowered so I didnt need the spring compressors
     

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  3. saladman

    saladman Paid Member Paid Member

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    Here goes - running summary is:

    • Bilstein struts / shocks:
      • Bilstein Front Shock Part No. 22-041141

      • Bilstein Rear Shock Part No. 19-019963
    • Standard or OEM equivalent springs
      • My mind is telling me 20mm ish drop
      • But my body, my body is telling me standard
    • Make sure I've got a kit of fresh dozeNuts etc
    • Top mounts
    • Any niche tools?
    I've replaced rear top mounts before in my first mk2 but haven't touched front suspension before.

    Willing to scrape my knuckles though
     
  4. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    If you can get genuine 16V springs, they sit about 10-15mm below the 8V height. I suppose a 20mm drop isn’t bananas but after my experience, it has turned me right off, deliberately lowering anything and sticking with standard suspension set-ups.
     
  5. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Working on the Mk2 front suspension is pretty straightforward, be steady and deliberate and take photos if you want to be double certain of the sequence of disassembly and assembly. I have an old Haynes Manual which has actually been quite helpful - that is not always the case mind you.

    Having a decent set of replacement parts (shocks, dust covers, bumps stops, top mounts, bolts etc.) is a joy and is well worth it when complete.
     
  6. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    Might need a special socket to undo a castle type nut on front shocks at top, I have one if needed
     
  7. JCS16V Forum Member

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    Hi - couple of suggestions:

    1. You could also consider standard VW Golf GTI G60 springs (if you can find a set second hand) - these are a bit lower than standard 16v springs, but still very practical for UK roads

    2. There is a really good thread in 'Members Gallery' called '1990 MK2 GTI Project' by @caddyboet - he fitted some coilovers to his GTI and has them at a sensible height. The car looks great and is not silly low

    upload_2022-1-24_15-53-49.png
     
  8. JCS16V Forum Member

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    Here is Caddyboet's GTI on coilovers;
    upload_2022-1-24_15-59-49.png
     
  9. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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    Yes but coilovers are hard which sort of defeats the object.
     
  10. MJA

    MJA Paid Member Paid Member

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    I've got Koni adjustable coilovers on my mk2. I haven't really driven the car but have managed to raise the car up so it is equivalent to the red one above. The coilovers have recently been re-built by the previous owner so will stick them out if they are not rock hard.

    If they are then I will get the Bilstein B4 & Eibach combo. I have this on my Corrado and mk3 (but with b8 shocks) and they are perfect for daily use.
     
  11. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Phil is bang on - avoid coil-overs like the bubonic plague. If you're going to be tracking and or constantly caning this car around the place, then fine, but if it's going to be a steady/daily driver stick with decent shock absorbers and springs - if you want to drop it about 20mm, then by all means it's your car, I wouldn't but that's the great thing about free will.
     
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  12. MJA

    MJA Paid Member Paid Member

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    I've never had a car with coilovers. This advice is making me think to get rid and go for the B4/Eibach setup - I hate a harsh ride.
     
  13. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    "Coilovers" are good for setting corner weighting, and ride height low enough for CG, while not upsetting suspension geometry and allowing good dampening for the chosen spring rate.
    It is the sort of item really needed for a very experienced racer or track-day enthusiast. A road car often does not need them, nor the cheap tat that is sold.

    -20 mm drop, beyond what a Golf GTI already sits at, is fine.
    It is my preference and a good balance with everything else.
     
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  14. d m a lee New Member

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    I've a run out 8v. what I've settled on for my set up is basically factory G60 setup with the addition of bilstien b6 struts everything else is nos Genuine vw including rear G60 Axle. Win
     
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  15. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    Eibach springs on my A4 avant improved it no end and no ride comfort loss, highly recommended.
    Cheap coilovers are usually very harsh, especially when dropped severely, decent ones are big bucks though suppose that's why most people only experience the teeth chattering ride.
     
  16. Chris Tyas Paid Member Paid Member

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    OE spec Bilstein B4s and Eibach lowering springs on the 8v GTI and the Rivage and the mk2 syncro. Never had a problem on any road or speed bump, even with the small bumper chin spoiler on the GTI. Occasionally scrape the top of a kerb when parking up to one but that's my issue not the car's. Avoid any coilovers unless you're spending more than £1k and you want the ride to be solid. I've also had Koni top adjustables with the Eibach springs and even on full soft they're much stiffer then OE and I wasn't a fan, it wasn't as compliant. Firmness and ride comes primarily from the springs, the shocks stop you continually bouncing and help absorb shocks as the name would suggest.
     
  17. MJA

    MJA Paid Member Paid Member

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    What's the thoughts on koni adjustable coilovers? I'm debating to get rid after reading this - I prefer comfort tbh - i'm sorting my car out at the moment so no bother to swap to B4s and Eibach. It would be annoying to have it re-aligned etc. Surely could sell the coilivers for the same as a new B4 kit.
     
  18. costel1969

    costel1969 Paid Member Paid Member

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    From above, I'm pretty sure you can see the consensus on coil-overs (regardless of the brand) and if you're looking for comfort, they're just not the way to go.
    You probably would have a decent chance of flogging the coil-overs and using the proceeds to get a set of B4's - there will always be sado-masochists out there who will insist on coil-overs over shocks.
     
  19. MJA

    MJA Paid Member Paid Member

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    I think so aswell. Never had them before but since they were recently re-built I thought I'd try - but this is confirming my reservations. Besides I have found it super irritating getting them set at the right height, a ball I can't be bothered with.
     
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  20. caddyboet

    caddyboet Paid Member Paid Member

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    I’m a big fan of coilovers and it’s the first thing I change on any of my cars. There are a few reasons for this:

    - Firstly you have complete ability to set the car up as you like. A lot of people simply use coilovers to go as low as they can, but that’s not actually what they are designed for. A good quality set running at roughly the middle of their adjustability will be incredibly comfortable for everyday use. The fact it’s a coilover simply means you can adjust it a little up or down to get it sitting just how you want.

    - The “harshness” of any suspension is down to incorrect damping not ride height. It doesn’t matter if it’s standard shocks and springs, or coilovers, the dampers perform best when they can use as much of their stroke as possible. A standard strut / damper designed to use an OE spring will feel harsh with a much lower spring fitted because it reduces the travel of the damper stroke. A coilover will also feel harsh if slammed for exactly the same reason. Broadly speaking though, coilovers have their damping sweet spot at a slightly lower ride height than standard shocks and springs. Whatever route you go, choose a damper that matches your spring rate.

    - You get what you pay for in both instances. There are a lot of cheap coilovers out there designed for people who just want to go low. Avoid these like the plague. Likewise a good quality standard damper designed to run at standard ride height will feel average at best if you use a spring that is much lower than it’s designed to work with. Koni make great dampers and coilovers in my opinion, and it’s worth knowing that they manufacture H&R suspension as well.

    - Finally, don’t forget the impact ARB’s have on comfort. While they limit body roll which is broadly speaking a good thing, they also limit the ability for the front wheels to move independently. So you could have a great damper / spring combo, or great coilovers fitted, but if you over do it on uprated ARB’s you car will feel harsh for daily use (but inspiring on a track [:D] ).

    So for me the benefits of being able to make slight adjustments with the coilovers are invaluable, and as I don’t desire to slam my car I can run them in the damping sweet spot making the ride really compliant and comfortable. Both options can deliver equally brilliant or terrible characteristics though, and it’s all in the combination you choose to go with not necessary the simple difference between damper & spring vs coilover. :thumbup:
     
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