24v VR6 tuning?

Discussion in 'VR5, VR6 & Wx' started by ham&cheese, May 23, 2015.

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  1. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Not for production engines no.

    Does not stop there, the later BDB/BUB engines, run different cam tracks and cams and also run returnless fuel systems. Some cost cutting on crankshaft production as well. All later PFI engines were 250ps vs the 237 and 250ps achieved from BFH and BHE engines.

    Needs to be measured and then you will know what can be done. However see my note on change of production components between EU4 and EU3 engines.

    Were those sources referencing details from VW/Audi drawings, or was this a measured observation?

    The variable manifold in theses engine do work on a production vehicle, to achieve 250 lbft from just 2400rpm. Once the tuning effect of the smaller torque tubes starts to choke the engine @ 4000rpm the shorter runners are blended in and switched on.
    If the low down torque is not required at 2400rpm, then a custom fixed manifold can be fabricated and tuned to unlock top end flow at higher RPM. Some thought will have to be given to gearing if that route is chosen.

    Same peak power as a BHE engine although I have not seen the rest of details for torque/rpm and so on.

    It will be, the cal is matched to a performance camshaft!
     
  2. G60Dub

    G60Dub Forum Member

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    NWT 3.0 Calibration

    Just throwing this out there whilst the subject of recalibration is on the table. Most of Germany and the Netherlands go to one tuner to have their R32s tuned- A chap called Zoran who's marketing his calibrations as NWT (an acronym of Nockenwellen Timing)

    I spoke to him via email a couple of months ago and he was utterly horrified that the rear O2 sensors are typically coded out on UK calibrations and wouldn't consider a recal on my vehicle until I had two functioning post CAT sensors fitted. I didn't press for the exact reasons to his abject reaction but suspect one of two possibilities - Emission standards or that the rear O2s are also used to adjust long term drift of the wide-band pre CAT sensors.

    If the latter is true is it possible to disable the CAT efficiency checking whilst leaving the drift adjustment active? Moving on from this; if the rear O2s are coded out how does this affect long term running from a sensor drift standpoint and how does the control system compensate if say a pre CAT sensor suddenly experiences massive drift? If it runs rich what happens and if it runs lean what happens?

    Just trying to get my head around whether I need to sod off to Germany to have my shed remapped or not.
     
  3. MUSHY 16V

    MUSHY 16V Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    mk4 and and mk5 inlet manifolds are the same
    Only difference are the badge and the inserts for the throttle body are in different holes the mk5 the throttle body is angled back the mk4 is straight up and down
    through both manifolds have both sets of holes only one is utilised

    I have both manifolds
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  4. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Rear sensors are there as a measurement of catalyst conversion efficiency. In the event the rear of the catalyst is full of oxygen, and your injectors are on and the engine is making positive torque, the lean or rich measurement of the rear sensors, feeds into the the front bias (up to a calibrated clip) until the rear voltage setpoint meets a calibrated target for near 100% conversion efficiency as developed in a controlled lab experiment.
    When you remove the cat or the catalyst becomes so aged that it stops converting, the rear sensor switching frequency begins to mimic the switching action of the front sensors, and before it starts to fight against itself, an OBD fault will be triggered for a low efficiency cat.
    Rears sensors also need heat to start working. Modern cars use heater controls to maintain tip temps and to stop the sensor ceramic from cracking if there is too much condensate from combustion.

    This is why the rear lambdas and their heating strategy are coded out of calibrations, where the engine is fitted into a shell that does not have the requirement for a TWC.
    Rear sensors bias can account for to 1% of lambda 1 and the variation of +/- 3%. They to not do not play any part in the actual mixture adaptation. Fuel adaptives short and long term which can vary fuel control up to 25% if there is a leak or otherwise over many cycles. Usually this is about +/-5% in vehicles without a problem.

    So I am not sure what is the reasoning behind that so called vendors comment if true.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  5. G60Dub

    G60Dub Forum Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up Ed.

    Is the cam phasing/timing/IM switching something that is typically optimised on a 3.2 calibration and if so is it relatively mature? Trying to ascertain if I'll get a decent calibration here in the UK.

    There is abundance of threads on German forums but I've attached a couple here for info (I've not ran them thru google translate):

    https://translate.googleusercontent...3D5787&usg=ALkJrhhOz9Eg2ijlGV1bh13kE-sw2d7vhQ
    http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=711771
    http://www.a3quattro.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=6764
    http://www.a3q.de/index.php?page=Board&boardID=64
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  6. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    I will have a look at the threads, but I fear it will be just a load of speculation.
    Camshaft phasing is usually pretty robustly developed at the OEM for the best cam track both for economy and performance driving.
    Without triggering them on later 24v engines, they are in at the end stops or near to what you run at WOT.
    The inlet manifold switch point is what I find needs a bit of blending to get rid of the small torque drop at 4-4400 rpm.
     
  7. decoc182 Forum Member

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    So what software options are currently on offer in the UK?

    stealth racing
    r-tech (with their quoted unique TIV Torque-Based anti-jerk function calibration)
    united motorsport
    ?
     
  8. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    No 'software' options as such...It is just a binary file. Therefore just get it mapped!
    Do not expect a lot though.

    PS turning off the anti rocking function is unique now? LOL (shakes head)
     
  9. decoc182 Forum Member

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  10. TregVR6 New Member

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    Hi Guys. First post here. Sorry to Revive and hijack but you guys seem to know a lot about the vr6 stuff :-). I have a Touareg MK1 3.2 VR6. I was having a valve cover oil leak and replaced the valve cover gasket. I reconnected everything but looks like I messed the variable intake change-over stuff. I have this sound when I rev the engine:



    And the change-over valve seems to be stuck in one position. It does not move when I rev the engine. I looked at the vr6 intake manifold ssp and looks like my issue is caused by the changed-over valve. I tested 2 pcvs just to rule out the pcv. Looks like the intake pressure is being released through a small hole on the pcv. What do you guys think. Thanks for the help. By the way I did drive the Touareg in this condition but not over a 100 km/h. Touareg idles fine and drives fine. No vcds issues apart from two rich condition messages i've been trying to fix since I bought it. The gasket replacement was an attempt to fix these messages too. I'm learning stuff so bear with me here :-)
     
  11. TregVR6 New Member

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    Engine is AZZ by the way. 2004.
     

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