2E crossflow build

Discussion in '8-valve' started by George HH, Jan 10, 2010.

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  1. George HH Forum Member

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    hello,
    have been away from here for a fair while off playing with my audi S4 but have finally got my mk2 back (long story) which i intend to use for trackdays but will be put on the road while i do some work on the audi this year too.

    the mk2 has a 6 point bolt in cage that is pretty much there (one 3mm steel foot/mount left to go), bucket for driver and 5 point trs harnesses to go in, sunroof removed, stripped except for dash. car has koni adj/eibach springs, polybushes, eibach ARB's, braided brake hoses all round - currently 239mm brakes but have some 16v hubs laying around and should have some 280mm discs, 22mm m/c and G60 calipers winging there way to me shortly. also i have vibratechnics engine mounts from years ago that i can fit.

    its an 88 8v on digi, engine totally stock bar a k&n panel filter in a modified box and an unknown stainless exhaust taken from a donor 8v we broke a while back. just looking to build a fun torque-y 8v with what i have available and take this to the ring this year instead of the audi.

    i have acquired a full 2E engine and have a spare crossflow 8v head with the mk4 inlet manifold and TB. also should have a piper 285 cam. i have a spare old hombrew baffled sump which will go on too. i am aiming to run the 2E bottom end with the crossflow head and piper 285 cam.

    few questions -

    Will i be ok running the PB or 2E injectors with this set up?

    i'm in kent is there anywhere reccomended in the south east who can adjust fueling/timing to suit this set up - preferably on r/r?

    i gather i use the 2E cam belt kit, dizzy and headgasket?

    is the exhaust port layout on the xflow the same as the PB head? i cant remember and before i find out i need to get a manifold sorted.

    i read that ideally on an n/a engine like this higher compression is better, could a local machinist help me work this out when the head is skimmed to accomodate this into the build?

    i was thinking of doing some light porting and matching the ports to the manifolds etc, worth it? or better leaving as they are for now?

    any flaws i am unaware of with this combination - i know some blocks dont mate up perfectly with the crossflows so am ready for that.

    any help would be appreciated, its good to be back!
     
  2. Brookster

    Brookster Paid Member Paid Member

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    This sounds like it gunna be a nice build, i do have an interest in the potential of a 8V Crossflowed VW.:thumbup:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. danster Forum Addict

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    Exhaust manifold off pre-crossflow 8v (PB) will fit the crossflow 8V head ok. Height of the 2E block may cause it to rub slightly on the bulkhead depending on what style it is though.

    Head combustion chamber volume is 30cc (same as PB and 2E).

    If fitting a 285 deg cam it will need to be the hydraulic type.

    Skimming the head to increase compression would be good to get back some dynamic compression lost by fitting the longer duration cam.

    If you are running digifant management you will need either the 2E dizzy or your own PB one converted with a dizzy ring and larger drive gear. An AGG dizzy is no use.

    Not sure if the mk4 inlet manifold tb is a tps or throttle switch type. You need switch type for digifant.

    2E injectors are different from PB ones but some out of a vauxhall 2.0 XE red top should fit the mk4 inlet and be close enough. The mk4s own injectors and the PB ones would probably be ok to if you got a higher fuel pressure reg.

    Ultimately it will need setup to run 100% properly and whether or not the digifant ECU can be chipped to do this i am not sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  4. George HH Forum Member

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    cheers danster,
    when you say cam will need to be hydraulic - i assume if its been in an engine with hydraulic tappets then its the right sort?

    i have spoken to a mate tonight and he is going to work out how much needs skimming - read somewhere on here that around 11.5:1 would be good with this cam? any other reccomendations from experience?

    i may well have the mk4 injectors and possibly some G60 ones too if these would be any good. whats my standard pb or 2E fpr rated to? what donors shall i look at for a higher rated fpr?

    thanks for the advice.
     
  5. danster Forum Addict

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    Yes, hydraulic tappet cam is what i was refering to.

    Skimming the head 0.75 to 1mm will increase compression to about 11.5:1 but you really need to cc out everything to be accurate.

    Not sure exactly what fpr the mk4 fuel rail uses but imagine there are options in the 1.8t range.

    Headgasket will need to be checked as the oil drain under spark plug no2 is a slightly different shape to the 2E head. Possibly using the ABA code gasket will ensure correct sealing at this point.
     
  6. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Crossflow MK4 engine is a 06A block so when fitting the cylinder head on 058 block you will need to fill up the holes in the head to mate with 2E 058 block.
    Head spacing is different to 16v so you will need a ABK fuel rail that has Bosch EV style injectors.
     
  7. George HH Forum Member

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    i'm pretty sure i have the original fuel rail from the head somewhere. might even have injectors - i'm gutted cos i had a whole crossflow engine years ago but at the time only wanted the head for my g60 turbo project so sold the bottom end on.

    whats best method to fill these oil drain holes so they mate up - weld, chemical metal or some other way?
     
  8. danster Forum Addict

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    The 8v crossflow head does not have the extra oil drain holes at the back like the 20v head, so this is not a problem and can be fitted onto some of the later 058 blocks.
    Have a look at jettadans head in the for sale section and you will see the absence of the rear oil drains. On a 06X block the head gasket for the crossflow head has the gasket blanking these drains off and manages this because of the extra head surface over the oil drain holes to the block.
    Edit : Pretty sure this is the case but will stand corrected if need be.
     
  9. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    You mean the US ABA 8V crossflow. I am sure the MK4 1.6 and 2.0 06A jobs are different.
    Can confirm later today.
     
  10. George HH Forum Member

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    i need to check possibly then cos i had a mk4 head and a candian aba head and assumed they were the same, i cant remember which one i kept tbh. will get over to the garage and check asap. thanks for your help gents.
     
  11. danster Forum Addict

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    My crossflow head is off an AKL engine and does not need any alterations to fit to a 2E block other than the 2 rear outer cylinder head stud holes being opened up slightly at the very top of their bores to allow the fitting of the slightly larger head studs used on the 2E block.

    There are a few different types of crossflow head though, so maybe some have issues like toyotec suggests. You can certainly get ones in the uk that will work.
    I have seen some differences in the inlet port shape though. Mine is shaped to give a pronounced swirl effect in the inlet valve bowl presumably to help combustion chamber scavenging and mixture atomisation.
    Std valve sizes are 39.5 inlet and 33mm exhaust in 7mm stems.
     
  12. George HH Forum Member

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    good to know, thanks. i'll be up my garage at the weekend so can have a mock up.
     
  13. Brookster

    Brookster Paid Member Paid Member

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    Whats the part numbers for the Different crossflow heads ?

    would like to see some flow results for them compared to DX 8V Head.
     
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  14. George HH Forum Member

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    the one i have is 037103373T marked with AF - ABA far as i know. this is the one i got from canada (if i recall) years ago.
     
  15. danster Forum Addict

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    AKL 1.6 mk4 engine head is marked - 06B 103 373A

    I believe the ABA head has inlet ports at the valve bowl area similar in shape to the Pre crossflow DX, PB etc.

    AKL has the swirl inducing shape in the inlet valve bowl area.

    Inlet manifolds for both ABA and AKL are the same, but different from the DX, PB etc. Exhaust ports are larger in ABA and AKL (same size as the 2.0 heads like 2E and AGG) than the DX, PB etc and the Exhaust manifolds off the DX, PB etc will fit the crossflow heads with port matching to the larger exhaust ports.

    Not sure if flow rates will be comparable between the 2 heads due to the differing inlet port designs at the valve bowl , but the swirl effect may help combustion chamber scavenging and mixture atomisation to make up for any difference in flow. Cannot see vw designing it this way for no benefit.
     
  16. VolksVillain

    VolksVillain Forum Member

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    I'm looking into the idea of crossflowing my PB, I have a ss 421 and I know this will fit, but i'm currently fitting a set of dellorto's, does anybody know if I would need to get a new inlet manifold for the CF head?
     
  17. prof Forum Addict

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    didn't vr6will spent a lot on one of these heads and then wish he'd gone ABF for more power/less
     
  18. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    I think Will's engine was just a bit short of compression for the massive cam that was in there. Made about 170 lbft I think, and similar BHP.
     
  19. danster Forum Addict

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    The 8v head is alot cheaper to modify than the 16v ones when you start pushing the limits and you only have to lap in half the amount of valves.;)
     
  20. Benjo Forum Member

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    Have you considered using a g60 PG exhaust manifold? Apparently they flow more than the PB item.
     

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