4 cyl big block oil pumps - how many versions? FAQ added p2. Updated p4.

Im starting to think that the hollow drive shaft pumps were needed to supply more oil to the helix gears as the 16v had a higher rpm range, and therefore they felt the gears would have needed additional lubrication.
The cap acted as a pressurised ''hold down'' on the gear and also aided in directing the oil out onto the teeth.

Anyone agree?

 

Could be Brian - will be looking at the 8v pumps some more.

 

Just back to this:

It seems the upper and lower parts of the castings have 'casting part numbers'.

However, in combination, a new number is then alocated to the pump, for ETKA 8V, KR etc.

Findings so far:

8V:

top half - 068 115 109A
bottom half - 026 115 153A
ETKA pump number - 027 115 105E (EZ engine)

KR:

top half - 068 115 109A
bottom half - 049 115 153B
ETKA pump number - 027 115 105C

ABF / edit: and AEB:

top half - 026 115 109B (seen on 2 separate pumps)
bottom half - 026 115 153A (seen on 2 separate pumps)
ETKA pump number - 051 115 105A

1Z diesel:

Received from turbotommy - thanks

top half - 026 115 109B
bottom half - 026 115 153 A
ETKA pump number - 028 115 105G

Addional info: KR abd ABF pumps both have 17 splines on the pump drive.

 

Just a quick word Chris, the AEB pump numbers are the same as the ABF as you have listed above, just incase you want to re-edit and include them to keep it all tidy.
Have it right here on my desk and even the ports, casing etc are exactly the same.

Brian.

 

Great info, but how can you test that the plunger is not stuck in the pressure release/by-pass regulator. I got a allen key in at the head of the plunger but it wouldn't budge. How do you get the end cap off? Thanks.

 

Ok, following on from the earlier pictorial here, here's my 1Z diesel oil pump findings:

1) The part numbers are now listed in the post just above and there is clear consistency now that the casting numbers correspond with the gear size containd within. An 'entire assembly' part number is then allocated, nothing to do with those casing numbers. The 1Z pump has the same upper and lower casing numbers as the ABF pump, therefore it has the largest exit aperture, same as the ABF (right) and also 9A/G60:



(ignore the 2 on the left - this pic was used earlier in the thread).

2) It has 36mm-width gears (equal largest, along with the ABF/9A/G60, mentioned earlier in this thread).

3) Different driveshaft (8-valve top, 1Z diesel bottom):



No distributor obviously, but although the drive looks the same, there are some subtle differences.

a) the stem is longer than the 8-valve version, since there's no distributor
b) the stem is waisted, with an oil hole in the waist (visible in pic)
c) the oil feeds up through the stem (right), unlike the 8-valve stem (left):



This relates to Brian.G's discussion earlier in the thread about unfiltered oil being supplied to the oil pump shaft throughout the life of the engine.

Answer please as to what it feeds, as we could due with crossing off why it has a different drive to a KR/ABF.


Thanks to turbotommy for supplying the pump

 

Info summarised so far then:

Engine	ETKA pump no	Upper half casing	Lower half casing	Gear height	Stem	Outlet size	Drive shaft + spline
8v	027 115 105E	068 115 109A	026 115 153A	30mm	Non waisted	Small	Distributor-drive style driveshaft
KR/PL	027 115 105C	068 115 109A	049 115 153B	30mm	Non waisted	Medium	Different spline design to ABF, same toothcount
G60 (PG)	037 115 105	026 115 109 B	026 115 153 A	36mm	Non waisted	larger than basic 8v, but smaller than ABF	Distributor-drive style driveshaft
9A	051 115 105A	Not visible (2dub)	026 115 153 A	36mm	Waisted	Large pump outlet / ABF housing appearance	ABF style spline, not KR
1Z diesel	028 115 105G	026 115 109B	026 115 153 A	36mm	Waisted stem, different to ABF	Largest pump outlet, same as ABF	Distributor-drive style driveshaft
ABF	051 115 105A	026 115 109B	026 115 153A	36mm	Waisted	Largest	17 teeth
AEB	058 115 105C	026 115 109B	026 115 153A	36mm		Largest

Oil pick ups for all bar ABF are like a rose.

ABF has a different design, reaching ~5mm deeper into the sump. Pics in thread


If anyone has a 2E pump, shout up

2dubnick: is it possible to get part nos off the upper and lower casings for the 9A and G60?

Cheers

 

With regard to the oil holes in the pump shafts for lubrication and the lack of them in certain engines:
I have noticed on some of the 8V engines I have stripped (petrol & deisel), that the intermediate shaft bearing in the block next to the oil pump gears has a slight slot in it orientated in such a way that oil is sent towards the gears for lubrication. It is only a small groove but with 60 psi of oil pressure i would imagine it supplies a fair stream of oil.
May explain why the 8V shaft did not have any drillings in it. Also something to consider if ever getting these bearings replaced too.

 

2E I had here was the same as the ABF apart from the splined shaft.

 

Can the gears be pressed off the shafts out of interest?

 

Sorry only just saw that:

G60 upper casing: 026 115 109 B - lower part: 026.115.153.A

9A upper casing seems the same but is hard to see as its had a knock rite on the part number, would seem VW didnt warrant a separate part number even though they have different size flow holes in them?

Lower part is definitely the same number.

 

Nice one

 

Thanks danster.

 

Cracking thread

Was pointed in this direction by RJ, for a possible cause of a ticking coming from my KR under acceleration..

Was heartened by the possibility that it might be caused by a sticking hydraulic plunger / plug above the oil pump drive, however when I pulled the plug out it was found to be a solid steel effort rather than a hydraulically controlled plunger:

Brian.G's plug:






My plug:


Removed plugs from both '89 and '91 KR lumps, which were both the same.

Assuming excessive endfloat in the oil pump drive can cause issues (VAG must have switched from a solid plug for a reason) does anyone think it might be possible to retro-fit a hydraulic item? I realise that the 2.0 items won't fit due to their larger OD, and it appears that the alloy items are designed to seal on thier shank with an O-ring (I think this area on a KR block is rough cast, so no good for sealing) Brian; can you confirm which 1.8 engine you found this plunger on? Any danger of a part no. please?

Apologies if this post is a bit off topic - I though the finding of a solid plug might at lease render it of enough worth to escape being labelled as a thread hijack

 

You could try the 20v ADR engine in A4s and Passats.
It has the small bore of the 1.8 block.
Try looking on ekta to see if it has any dimensions.
If you are stuck I have a KR and ADR in the shed and I could take a look to see if it would fit.

 

Cheers Danster

Have looked on ETKA and unfortuntately there are no dimensions.. it's twisting my melon as it shows 3-4 parts in this area for the 16v engine (locking cover, bush, seal, plug) some of which are shared with the 8v engine, and none of which look anything like what's on my engine or Brian.G's for that matter.

The "locking cover" part has a different number for the KR and ADR, but I suppose this could be because the newer one has superceded the older (although there are no notes to this end on the KR part).

If you could have a quick squiz in the shed that'd be great; although don't bust a gut (if the weather there is anything like it is here, you'll run a very real risk of drowning ) I remember seeing a N/A 1.8 (ADR?) A4 down the scrappy on my last visit, so perhaps I'll take the vernier and have another look tomorrow.

Think I got the wrong end of the stick earlier - was thinking that float in the pump drive was causing the noise, whereas the real problem appears to be excessive clearance causing too much oil flow, causing a pressure drop and starving the head of oil - hence the rattle. There are no concentric witness marks on the plug I removed, so I don't think it's ever been in contact with the pump drive...

 

Found an ADR coded engine down the scrappy today that had already been somewhat butchered, and after an hour of swearing, prying and belting stuff with my finest pikey-mallet (bit of rotton wood and a brick) I liberated the hydraulic plug from the block.

Guiltily plugged the resulting hole with a bit of blue roll, although I don't really think this matters since someone had already had the inlet manifold off and plugs out, and the head was full of water

The good news is that it fits the KR (nice one danster ) bad news is that the f*cker still sounds like a bag of spanners.

Regardless, I thought the information was relevant to this thread...


KR solid steel plug (L) and ADR hydraulic cast alloy plug; collapsed state:


As above, ADR plug fully extended:


From above:


The OD of the inside section of the hydraulic plug has a small boss cast into it, which engages a slot in the housing to prevent it turning. This promptly fell off with little encouragement on my example.. better that than in my engine, I suppose.

I'm still interested to know the reasoning for replacing the single piece part with the hydraulic assembly.. I can appreciate that it should control oil flow to the intermediate shaft gears from the pump drive better, but there don't appear to be a glut of dead KRs about as the result of poor oil pressure etc..

Anyway, if anyone's arsed the part no. for the hydraulic item is 058 103 703, and it costs about a tenner

 

Thanks Mike, shall be interesting to see what comes up on that.

Back on the topic of the oil pumps themselves, a couple of bits of anecdotal evidence have come to light concerning why different oil pumps exist.

Two people recently - one Germany, one UK - have said that 16v pumps are bigger due to the requriement for volume to:

1) run the oil squirters
2) run the 16 hydraulic buckets

If a 16v motor has the squirters removed and/or is converted to solid lifter, the suggestion is the pump doesn't need to be as big.

Does this theory hold, given both the G60 and 1Z diesel run 36mm gears? Obviously 8 less buckets, but do they run oil squirters under the pistons?

 

Just something to add, the squirter's only open at iirc 2krpm, and an oil pump needs the greatest delivery volume at hot idle, so Im thinking its more-so to run the buckets perhaps?

 

Cheers Chris.. not sure how relevant or useful that info is, but I thought it was worth throwing into the mix.

ETKA lists 4 oil squirters for the G60 (PG) lump, as well as the Diesel engines (MF, RA, SB, JR, 1V).