Am I missing something? Rocco 16v shafts = MK2 Golf

Discussion in 'Transmission' started by rubjonny, Jun 30, 2008.

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  1. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the part numbers above include both c/vs so its nothing to do with the shafts, and a 100mm flange is a 100mm flange regardless of if its on a MK1, MK2 or MK3 so all that leaves us with is the hub or the hub carrier! The MK1 hub has a different part number to the MK2 one, so this may explain it?

    What I can't get my head round is if MK1/2 shafts are indeed the same length all other things being equal why no-one has figured this out sooner :lol:
     
    rubjonny, Jun 30, 2008
    #21
  2. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    What makes it more puzzling is that the Mk1/MK2 hub flanges are the same, no? So distance from 020 output flange to the back of hub flange is the distance we're talking about. Doesn't this eliminate the hub design from the argument?

    This is it! I've been on the forum for ~4/5 years continuously, raking active topics and the only story that comes up is one of people occasionally knocking out inner CVs on Mk1s.
     
    A.N. Other, Jun 30, 2008
    #22
  3. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    as I said the hub is a different part number on a MK1, so I guess this could be the key:

    175 407 615 - MK1
    357 407 615 - MK2

    I found this out thanks to a post on the vortex, VDub2625 mentioned the part numbers were the same for MK1 & MK2 16v, I was about to post that MK1 axles were shoter but I thought I'd double check, and he was right! clicky
     
    rubjonny, Jun 30, 2008
    #23
  4. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Ah, could be something in that then.

    Does ETKA show part nos on a bare-shaft basis? Being a part no for a built up shaft feels as though we could be missing s/thing.

    Mk2 outer CVs are bigger?
     
    A.N. Other, Jun 30, 2008
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  5. gillm

    gillm ***** User

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    i belive mk2 and rocco cv's are a larger dia as i had to swap back to std cv's to fit my hubs .

    anyone got any pics of the pass side shaft fitted on a 020 and a 02a as my angles look crap .i.e facing aft
     
    gillm, Jun 30, 2008
    #25
  6. mr.brown

    mr.brown Paid Member Paid Member

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    The wheel bearing housings changed in 1984 - requiring a larger outer CV joint.

    Thus mk1 Golf + mk1/2 Scirocco to 1984 = old, smaller outer CV
    mk2 Golf + post 84 Scirocco = larger outer CV

    The later CVs fit onto the older driveshafts - it's the wheel bearing housing that requires modification.
     
    mr.brown, Jun 30, 2008
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  7. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    [:s] - so late hubs differ?

    But how do 100mm Cabrio and late Scirocco shafts fit straight on pre-'84 Mk1 hubs?

    So just back to the driveshaft length FAQ - click - none of the numbers are matching up so far as regards the Mk2 GTI shafts being the same length as 100mm Cabrio/Scirocco shafts...

    All those numbers are up for confirmation, but it's all we have for now.
     
    A.N. Other, Jun 30, 2008
    #27
  8. CRISPY 8V

    Crispy 8V CGTI Committee - Club Secretary Admin

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    from experence the wheel bearing change from mk 1-2, difference being the thinkness of the external hub diameter. mk1's being thiner hub shaft

    on fitting the 100mm Outer CV's from mk 2 scirroco i found for some resason just more so on the OS the flange that sits agaist the hubwas too big for the hole, locking updrive shaft to hub.

    required no more that grind down of cv
     
    Crispy 8V, Jun 30, 2008
    #28
  9. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yeah this is because as mr brown says the wheel bearing housing post 84 changed slightly. however the hub itself is the same part number pre/post 84.

    unfortunatly etka/etos doesnt list a part number for the bare shaft, the only number is in reference to the whole thing with c/vs attached.

    However the the early carrier has been superceeded by the later part so the actual mounting dimentions are the same, it just has more room for the larger c/vs.
     
    rubjonny, Jun 30, 2008
    #29
  10. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    So when I slotted a Cabrio/Scirocco 100mm shaft into pre-'84 hub & wheel bearing housing, why have I had no issues with clearance at the outer cv? [:s]
     
    A.N. Other, Jun 30, 2008
    #30
  11. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    could be in the past they were replaced rather than messing with wheel bearings, or you were just lucky :lol:
    Have you actually driven the car since?

    edit: just how pre/84 are we talking? might be it was late enough off the line to get some later parts...
     
    rubjonny, Jul 1, 2008
    #31
  12. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    The car had been in the family since new, and was on original bits - 1983 car.

    And it was used with no probs - road and track.

    I might have to ask the oracle that is Dubboy76 on this - he will probably know for sure.
     
    A.N. Other, Jul 1, 2008
    #32
  13. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I'd say either not all 100m outer c/vs need the modification (were the outer c/vs original VW?) or you got the later hubs fitted to the car from new :)
     
    rubjonny, Jul 1, 2008
    #33
  14. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    The shafts were late Scirocco from a breakers, and the hubs were original.

    Think it's a case of getting some pictures, so I'll photo the back of a Mk1 hub and post it up.

    I'm not sure where we're at now on the original point about cabrio and late Scirocco Mk1 & Mk2 shafts being the same.

    Mk2 GTI shafts on the driveshaft FAQ thread are listed as longer than non-GTI, btw.

    Did Mk2 Drivers (for eg) have 100mm flanges?
     
    A.N. Other, Jul 1, 2008
    #34
  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I dont believe any of the carby models had 100mm flanges, are the shorter shafts listed for the 1.3? that would make sence as I thnink the box on them is a totally different width between the flanges. Thought the measurements are from the haynes, I wouldn't trust them! The measurement you DO have thats not from haynes is only 2mm different to the 100mm MK1 shaft length...
     
    rubjonny, Jul 1, 2008
    #35
  16. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I'm not sure whether they're 1.3 measurements - need to check and add another section to distinguish those in due course I think.
     
    A.N. Other, Jul 1, 2008
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  17. ANDY947

    Andy947 Forum Addict

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    My 1.8 Carb Driver had 100mm CV joints

    I did some ATP searching on ETKA for some of the Late Cabrio shafts with 100mm CV's and they were indeed the same parts as used on MK2's.
     
    Andy947, Jul 1, 2008
    #37
  18. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Just to confirm: GTI Mk2s?
     
    A.N. Other, Jul 1, 2008
    #38
  19. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    ah ok so its all 1.8 models that got 100mm c/vs.
    sucks to be a seller of 100mm MK1 driveshafts, looks like the bottom has just fallen out of the market :lol:
     
    rubjonny, Jul 1, 2008
    #39
  20. A.N. OTHER

    A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I'm still not getting it though - what are Mk1 and Mk2 front track widths respectively?

    They can't be the same.

    The wheel offsets are similar, there's maybe a bit in the hub flanges for the Mk2, but generally this is not making a heap of sense (still!)
     
    A.N. Other, Jul 1, 2008
    #40
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