Sorry Josh - BRAIN FADE - I misread my notes! The Passat hubs I quoted - 893 407 615A - were those used on the early VWMS Mk2s up until about 1986. Quite right the Audi 80 and Passats used a nut on the CV joints for those hubs. The bearing is correct up to 1986 - 321 498 625D but was replaced by 321 498 625E. Don't know why the number change but both are: 39 Bore x 68 OD x 37 Wide (NOT 40 Bore as I wrote earlier!) Check FAG Nr. 713610160 for confirmation. From about 1987 VWMS used a modified Audi 80 hub to utilise the bolted CV joint Audi switched to for the 1987/88 range. The hubs I used were: 443 407 615A from my 90Q 20V rear. 443 407 615A is also used on the front of some FWD 80s and the rear of some 90Qs This hub is M14 - 4 x 108 - so has to be drilled and tapped M12 - 4 x 100 It has a stepped bearing diameter: 39/42 for bearing 443 498 625 FAG Nr. 713610150 quotes 42 x 75 x 37. For some reason it does not mention the step! The step needs skimming to 39. Apologies once again, Regards, Dave.
just for interest looking at etka only difference between 321 498 625D and E is the kit of parts that comes with it. you got loads more bits with the D kit!
Just thinking about it! The later Mk2 used a bearing which was 40 x 72 x 37 It might be better to use the later uprights, bored out to 75, and the stepped bearing and hubs, which will just need drilling and tapping. This means you can use 19mm ball joints! Only real difference is brake mounting is fixed by the existing calliper carrier mounting holes. The original VWMS gives more options as it uses a plate bolted to the 3 holes in the upright. The plate which replaces the calliper carrier gives more options for callipers and discs.
Dave, thanks for the additional brain dump. The photos I can find of hub 443407615A do not have a step and are 42mm OD The photos I can find of the bearing 443498625 also do not have a step and are 42mm ID 75mm OD (??) Is there a 68mm bearing and hub combination that works with the bolt-style CVs? It seems taht since the late mk2 GTI uprights hold a 72mm bearing, it would be easy to fit a 68mm bearing with a 2mm pressed-in shim either machined or made of sheet metal.
Josh. 90Q 20V Rear. I can assure you that the parts I used were straight off my 1991 90Q 20V. Definitely a stepped brg. 39/42 x 75 OD. Definitely had to machine the 42 mm step down to 39 on the hub! As to photos. What is the source? Many suppliers use generic photos! If it's someone like Meyle then I would not trust to their accuracy!
Josh. I don't have a stepped rear brg., as they are both on the car. I do have a new stepped front bearing. Still in its box: SKF 1356 This is 893 498 625E. SKF quote 43 x 82 x 37. No mention of the step!
Also note they claim only 26 splines Now, wht are the chances we can find a 42mm ID x 72mm OD x 37mm width wheel bearing? There is a 42 x 72 x 38mm ....
What can I say? All I know is what I have done with the parts from my 1991 90Q 20V and the parts shown in ETKA!
I went ahead and ordered a hub 443407615 to investigate... Sure enough, it does not have a step, it is straight 42mm OD. BUT, it also does not fit the Audi 80 CV I have 893498099M. The hub splines are too coarse (26 splines rather than 33) and too large a diameter bore as well... Below are photos I took of my parts. It looks like the 8A0407615 hub has a stepped bore and bearing and will fit the CV I have although, there may be multiple versions of this hub with different offsets. See photos from online that I found. On the other hand, it may be that the 895498099 (note 895 rather than 893 prefix for an Audi 90) may fit the hub I have in hand with straight 42mm OD. I will try to press apart some of my other assemblies and see how close the offsets might be...
Josh. I am so sorry that my attempts to help you have lead to you wasting money. Hopefully you can get a refund? All I can think is that my AUDI 90 is of the later design in the image below!? It's a 1990 car and the chassis nr. is 8ALA283385, which bears no relationship to the numbers in etka! I assumed it was of the early type but it appears it is of the later type as below!? When I converted to 5 stud hubs I just called up part numbers from the Coupe S2 so never had to compare part numbers. The bearings that were supplied were identical to the ones I removed, and the 5 stud hubs were stepped The hub in the later type is 8A0 407 615, which is the stepped hub you have! Drive shaft on the right is Mk2 from a 1987 PB GTI. On the left is a rear shaft from my 90. The CV joint is from my 90 and fits both. There is a number stamped on the CV: 895 407 305 B. But this does not tie up with anything I can find in etka! I counted 24T on the CV with 26.7 mm OD and 25 mm root. I counted 30T on the shafts with 24.5 OD and 22.5 mm root. BTW. I am not a fan of Meyle I have had rapid failures using their stuff. A countryman of yours had Mk2 hub failures, they sheared off, using Meyle hubs. The boxes stated 'Germany' all over, but on the bottom it read 'Made in China'. Once again I can only apologise for making such a serious c0ck-up. Kindest regards, Dave.
No worries Dave, I bought the Meyle because it was super inexpensive (about $20 USD delivered) and I just wanted to check measurements to ensure things can fit. Ordered a few more bits to check so I can compare everything with the mk2/mk3 parts for fitment. Once I have a solution in hand that works, I will source high-quality bits to use on the rally car.
Updates, I have 3 hubs here for comparison: Left to right -- Audi 90, Mk2/mk3, Audi 80 Backsides Height differences to brake rotor face area mk2 height to face 54mm Audi 80 height to face 61mm Audi 90 height to face 53mm mk2 bearing surface depth 34mm Audi 80 bearing surface depth 34mm -- Note stepped bearing bore Audi 90 bearing surface depth 34mm mk2 bore 40mm Audi 80 bore stepped at 41mm and 39mm Audi 80 bore stepped at 41mm and 39mm Audi 90 bore 42mm mk2 splines 24mm Diameter 22 splines Adui 80 splines 26.5mm diameter 33 splines Note the difference from mk2 to Audi 80 is actually more dramatic than OD shows as the splines are finer on the Audi CV and therefore hte min diameter is more than 2.5mm greater than the MK2 Audi 90 splines 28.8mm diameter and 26 splines --- I do not have a CV to measure off of here.
Hub from my 90 Q 20V prior to machining 42 to 39. Sketch of VWMS type uprights and calliper carrier adaptor plate to utilise the 20V from 2 pot callipers. Cross section utilising G60 front discs.
So, plans are to have some mk2/mk3 4-cylinder hubs re-machined to accept Audi 80 outboard CV joints if anyone is interested. I need to get about 50 units to make it work out and so far have about 34 committed to purchase so long as the price is reasonable.
Who would be interested in a set of hubs that allow you to run Audi 80 outer CV joints (Bolt through style) instead of mk2/mk3 joints (nut style)? Hubs would be remachined mk2/mk3 4-cylinder hubs. --Audi 80 outer CV joints snap right onto your existing CV axle shafts --Audi 80 outer joints are many times stronger than the mk2/mk3 units --Audi 80 outer joints allow you to replace axles without removing ball-joint from control arm. I would have to do a run of about 50 (25 pairs) to make it worthwhile for the machining costs. A ralliest would probably want 2 pairs or at least a pair and a spare. https://www.facebook.com/groups/26438253721/permalink/10153987688658722/
Hi Josh. So basically a mk2/3 hub resplined and machined to take the audi bolt through cv joints. How much you asking?
Exactly. Price will be determined by demand. Have to amortize a $1400 broach across the units sold. So, a run of 50 units will probably mean roughly $100 per hub all-in. A run of 1000 units would be cheap but would never sell even at $30 a hub
If resurrecting a thread bothers some, I apologize. Racing a old car can be a challenge. Tracked down some of those involved in this, it might be possible to get hubs built. Getting my hands on Audi 80 front, or 90 rear CVs is proving to be quite a challenge. Unless someone has some hints on finding them, this is making this process look less possible now days. EDIT: Some nice folks sent me looking in other places and I found some. I have been looking for GKN/Lobro/Spidan. There are some to be found in Europe, but what is more common are brands like Meyle, Vaico, and Maxgear. I don't recognize the last two, but I suspect they are lesser brands. The ones I found are in the $90-$140 range shipped to the US.
For those interested, there is some activity on this subject on the Facebook page VW Rally. The thread was started by Josh Wimpy in August 2016 and a search should find it.
