*Front Mount Intercooler creation Post 13* How to create a turbocharged 3.2 24v Vee Rheinmotor (VR)

Discussion in 'VR6 & V6 24V' started by Toyotec, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Location:
    Creating Pfredstarke
    Summary of how to engineer a 3.2 N/A VR6 24v into a turbocharged engine.

    43422578_10156891773383991_758659247889186816_n.jpg 43531099_10155868681875496_1465180139720540160_o.jpg

    I have always written informative ‘how to’ documents for this Club GTI group.
    It is a group I have remained loyal to since 2006, when I first wrote ‘How to ABF your MK2 Golf’.
    This ability to share my own work, is born out of my desire to tailor a vehicle to specific requirements, then report on how the task was completed. As a result activity like this has earned the respect of many an enthusiast. I believe the distribution of automotive information, empowers ambitious folks to have a go themselves, which leads to further enjoyment of their hobby.

    In this day of Facebook, where everything is perceived instant and folks want information on demand, with no time to read a forum anymore, I will take time to give back to this group using this medium. While I will not be expected to chronicle every detail, this information should enlighten what is involved when building up an engine for a specific requirement.

    Audi-S3-1999-800-0e.jpg
    It is no secret that I own an Audi 8L S3.
    As a Club GTI supporter and enthusiast, I have shared many a post, exclusively with this group on the Club GTI Facebook page, of that car, since it was purchased back in late 2014 with the original AMK 1.8T. Currently that powertrain is no more resident in that vehicle, which has generated this post on turbocharging the VR6 24v engine.

    As I get familiar with the intended character engineered into the current powertrain and display the car to enthusiasts, and I have been asked many questions in private on the ingredients required to build similar.
    While I accept, many folks can be lazy and what information on a plate, and despite the costs to carry out this type of work, as an enthusiast who has nothing to gain or lose, I will share details from my work of the net components that define my S3 3.2T's character.

    A few notes

    disclaimer.jpg

    As this was a piece of research and learning exercise like my WOLF R, involving many potential error states in the modified hardware, and many other unknowns, all mechanical, electrical, integration, component selection and calibration work was either done by me, or where outsourced directed by me. My experience is, this work can be done without ramps with some pre planning. While there are a few outfits here in the UK that can carry out this type of work, the outcome is limited by their own experience and at your expense. As one fully skilled in the trade as well as one exposed daily to the OE product development environment, I wanted to be fully in control of my success, failures and learning, so the ethos of the car could be built to be exact requirements, as well in my spare time as I managed the finances to fund it.

    While I am happy to share what I have done over the past year, here on Club GTI freely to the public and consider myself suitably qualified and resourced, if you do wish to take points from this exercise to build your own, you do so at your own risk. Aspects on the mapping methods I will not detail.


    Introduction from Dragon green to Goodwood Green.
    902978_10151316810170496_1871943304_o.jpg

    705086_10151123754715496_1154782471_o.jpg
    After 5 years driving a trusty and rugged dragon green VR6 MK3 aka "Der Ankor", it was time for a change. The MK3 was brilliant and served its purpose, allowing me to learn more about 12v VR6 engines evolution and vehicle control. I sold it on for its 200bhp engine. The tone of that 12v VR engine and the memories was missed.

    S3_TYO_Front.png S3_TYO_Rear.png
    In October 2014. I picked up a Goodwood green Audi 8L S3 and began to understand the vagueness and quirkiness of this type of vehicle.
    A Mk4 R32, which is the same PQ34 platform, would have been nice for the just the pure sound, but the price for exclusivity and the lack of pace, put me off.
    To my disappointment, the 8L S3, despite the Rennsport wide track and flared fenders, had even more boring performance, so being one blessed with professional mapping gear, I set about to recalibrate the engine map.

    10012187_10152393187690496_8758464459299092322_o.jpg

    That exercise made a stepped change to the car’s performance. Noticeably from 3000rpm, where regulated boost pressure of 1.3bar kicked in, the car kept accelerating just as hard till 5000rpm and would soon be in the new red line at 7200rpm, where boost ramped off to ~ 1bar.

    10904430_10152528901745496_7333685389867374352_o.jpg

    I drove the car like that for a few thousand miles, including a trip to Wolfsburg until inevitably the stock 5304 -23 turbo developed running issues and there was also light blue smoke that could be seen in heavy traffic.
    I wanted more performance. So the cylinder head was refurbished with new valve guides to get rid of the smoke, H sectioned rods were fitted, the block was tidied with new rings and a F23 hybrid turbo and ported ‘chinafold’ was added. As the stock injectors were past their thresholds, new 550cc jobs were purchased and the map tweaked for the extra flow. A TIP was purchased from Bill's Badger 5 also. The car was OK with a tad more lag than stock. Peak torque was now from 3500rpm until 6000rpm at 1.2 bar. I also added a SRE clutch disk which was carried over to the current powertrain.

    IMAG1658.jpg

    These new changes had a slight improvement on the car’s performance from stock + a remap and can be subjectively rated as OK. It was not what I wanted ultimately. I drove the car for a year and bit.

    In 2016 and I wanted a car with performance as a E92 M3 V8 or B7 RS4 without the high running costs. As with all my projects, I did some benchmarking of such vehicles, to blueprint in my mind what I wanted my near 1500kg 8L S3 to feel like.

    Untitled.jpg 20161007_124720.jpg

    The response and torque of the 4.2 l RS4 V8 left a lasting impression that I wanted to capture in my S3.

    16298834_10154212544115496_3156330236156132570_n.jpg

    Building a ‘big’ turbo 4 cylinder was ruled out, as the required power and torque to deliver the desired drive feel meant, an engine that would be less durable and highly stressed.
    On such a 4 cylinder, the range of full load torque would be too narrow and commence at post 4500, if it was stroked at greater expense or at near 5500 rpm as a 1.8 . Projected torque and the costs involved were not desired.

    31483038_10155508717770496_3711487564980045409_n.jpg

    I always have had a soft spot for the VR6 engine and missed the 'wabble' noise of my MK3 VR6. As stated before I really liked the sound of a 3.2 VR6. For the S3, I was prepared for a large project and the addition of a turbo would be desirable option to a V6, considering the platform of my Audi was similar to a 4 Motion 24v Golf. But there was a balance to this, as complexities with engine controls or lack of vehicle compatibility at the time with SEMs, initially made that option less desirable.
    Determined that something had to be done, I kept looking around for justification.
    Then I started to watch several and study videos of many 24v 3.2, 3.0, 2.9 vehicles seen in Germany with their 700 bhp to 900 bhp engines. I liked those a lot.
    It was videos of Alex Bomann’s Rallye that finally convinced it was going to be done.

    21200543_1647377305301788_8089920035192946557_o.jpg




    I reviewed my resources and skills and as one who is known to put his mind to a task and complete, I decided to take the plunge and build a road going 3.2 turbo 8L S3. There was going to be no turning back!
    One of my main challenges was, I decided to also use the OE Bosch ME7.1.1. ECU to control the lot correctly. Despite being prolific in the knowledge of NA and 20vT me7 stuff, I took the attitude where I lacked in knowledge for a ME7.1.1 NA to turbo control strategy, I would be forced to learn.

    Objectives of this exercise.
    • Engineering a 3.2 N/A VR6 to work with a turbocharger.
    • Fitting the new powertrain to an 8L S3.
    • Adapting the ME7.1.1 to control this bespoke engine and gearbox combination, adopting methods used on 12v M3.8.1 to run a boosted formally NA engine, as well using familiarity of the ME7.5 and MED9 ECUs found in other VW brands to know how to compensate for missing features.( I do own all legit mapping tools and editing suites).
    • To create this vehicle, without modifying it's external appearance (i.e a sleeper).
    • To use the creation of this vehicle as a test rig and learning experience of the 24v Vee Rheinmotor VW/Audi engine and controls.
    • To create an exhaust note that will not be intrusive in the cabin at any road speed, but with a deep muted sound track at idle.
    • To meet drive feel requirements translated to an engine performance at *500bhp@6400rpm and 450-480lbft@3500 to 5500rpm.
    • To create the above to exceed durability beyond 50k miles.
    • To be compliant with UK MOT inspections.
    • To create a vehicle that anyone could drive, similar to a E92 M3 or B7 RS4.
    *dyno variability can have an effect on measured the result from place to place. Just take as guidance only.

    Creating the 3.2 VR6 Turbocharged engine.

    20170319_150508.jpg

    This essay focuses on turbocharging a 3.2 VR6 engine and some additional work to allow fitment to a facelift 8L S3.
    Some of what is written here can apply to a MK4 Golf AWD with a V6 engine, which includes the 2.8 4Motion (BDE/BDF) and R32, and Audi TT V6. .
    On the surface, general base engine prep methods also applies MK5 Golf R32, 8P A3 3.2 and 8J TT V6.
    However the main focus is fitment to an 8L S3.

    33379071_10155566277655496_3515796791838638080_n.jpg

    The 8L S3 is a PQ34 vehicle with Haldex controlled AWD. This means it shares a platform and some powertrain components with the Golf, Beetle, Leon, Toledo and Octavia.
    If you have acquired a basic 3.2 head and block was done in this exercise, converting a 1.8T AWD vehicle like a 2001 EU3 S3 with it’s 02M gearbox to a V6 vehicle is made easier if there was a doner car for the main V6 components such as:
    • Power steering lines.
    • Both engine control looms complete with small modification for after run water pump supply.
    • Relay 409 added for door activated fuel pump prime (already on 4 motion, V5 20v and R32 Golf)
    • 022906032 ** ME7.1.1 ECU
    • HFM6 MAF (with 5th pin IAT input)
    • Right Side V6 Engine bracket
    • 066 VR accessory bracket with A/C pump, alternator and PAS pump
    • HEGO junction box cover
    • 02M V6 Gearbox + DMF
    • Coolant flow hoses and pipes and after run pump
    • V6/V5 twin fan and cowling.

    Depending on the donor and your base engine, you can sell off the rest of the donor vehicle to recover some of the cost.

    In my case, a late 2001 European MK4 Golf 2.8 4 motion vehicle, running a BDE engine, was sourced then broken up to donate the above components.

    Base engine selection.
    The base engine for the exercise was a 3.2 NA VR6 engine, which came in many VW/Audi/Porsche products between the EU3 and EU4 era in Europe. All transverse mounted EU3 3.2 VR6 engines share similarities and basic spec.
    The 8l S3 in this writing is an EU3 spec vehicle. So to reduce complexity, a 3.2 engine from the same era was used.
    BFH engines from the MK4 R32 at the time carried an unnecessarily high price tag. So wisdom prevailed and the exact spec long engine from an 8N Audi TT V6 aka the BHE was acquired.
    EU3 engines had the same heads, cams, blocks, cranks and pistons to run either 237bhp@6400rpm or 250ps@6400 from 11.25:1 CR. Power was capped via calibration settings.
    Unlike later 250ps EU4 engines with typical codes of BDB,BMJ and BUB, EU3 engines ran an older forged 021 crankshaft vs a 022 casting.
    Reports from the aftermarket community with boosted 3.2 V6 engines, suggest the use of a 021 3.2 crank. No test data exists to determine at what cylinder pressure, torque, cranks oscillation or rpm, the crank is likely to fatigue and fail. Fortunately, many 800 to 1300 bhp drag racing engines are known to use the standard crankshaft. While the exact durability of such components from an event cannot be always tracked, it was decided to use the 021 crank, as standard in the BHE engine, on the basis of common sense and projected durability for an engine that will be modified for at least half the power as the European drag racers. Without an analysis of crankshaft harmonics it is believed a 022 crank might just be suitable for this sort of project, which would open up the possibility of using later BDB, BMJ, BUB base hardware.
    The OE crank damper was going to be used as no engineering on in field data exists for fatigue failure on boosted engines.
    As per the original 1.8T AMK, the OE DMF (Mk4 R32 items) will be utilised to retain vehicle NVH refinement along with a stock clutch cover for acceptable pedal effort, reusing the SRE clutch disc from already in hand from 4 cylinder ownership.

    The engine build

    44685235_329321667825422_7272092888756912128_n.jpg

    Bottom end

    20161018_230538.jpg

    The 24v 3.2 engine has pretty robust thick piston crowns and I sectioned conrods that could sustain the forces from increased cylinder pressure and deceleration and acceleration from piston speeds. I can attest to their robustness after 2 two exhaust valves were dropped into a cylinder at 7000rpm. The rod and bearings were undamaged and the piston though thoroughly beaten was not punctured with little marks surface marks left on the cylinder bore. The out come of such apparent carnage meant, only 1 piston was replaced and the the engine lives on.
    A testament to the strength of the 3.2 VR engines, has been demonstrated on drag racing engines seen in the EU, which use many standard components.
    Due to the relatively low desired power target and the torque to be developed, the stock pistons and rods were to be retained.

    14618745_10153900811350496_190952366_o.jpg

    14787001_10153900811355496_1408264396_o.jpg

    For more robustness to bearing shell distortion, later bearings for the FSI V6 engines aka “03H” type sputter bearings were used.

    20161018_220434.jpg

    20161016_202626.jpg

    Specific ARP fasteners for the big ends were also acquired.

    20161129_094229.jpg

    As more air was expected to be packed into the cylinders, there was the risk of approaching cylinder pressures that could incur dieseling, hotspots, and detonation, inhibiting torque development,. So an experienced decision was made to reduce the compression ratio from a base 11.25:1. This was set with the use of a spacer plate, sandwiched between an OEM MLS gasket. Further work is ongoing to determine any revision in compression ratio.

    Cylinder head.

    44607389_2208172376129825_5373609402806829056_n.jpg

    No performance enhancing work is required on the cylinder head, if it is stock for this stage of performance. However with engines of unknown history, it is advised to have the valve guides checked/replaced and the deck lightly skimmed. The chain upper cover also will need to be skimmed to match any material moved from the cylinder head.
    In this build, the control block for fluted cam phasers was found to be seized from oil residue, causing substantial running issues. So it advised to inspect this area, if the engine is unknown.
    Ensure cam sensors G40 for intake "bank1" and G163 for exhaust "bank2" are in reasonable shape with no visible dents.
    If both sensors fail or are inoperable, the engine will not start.
    Due to lessons learnt during exhaust valve drop at high valve bridge EGTs, where lambda 1 was being sustained without knock, MK5 022109611P/N solid exhaust valves now used, replacing 022109611L/M sodium filled items. These are now superseded 022109611AA/AB solid valves. This operation makes the valve train pretty robust.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
    vwenterprise, HPR and G60Dub like this.
  2. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Location:
    Creating Pfredstarke
    Engine Dress kit.

    20161020_231046.jpg

    Exhaust manifold used for this conversion is a CTS T4 type.
    It is a log manifold with some separation between the first 3 cylinders.

    44603344_2293091530764344_3963108023580229632_n.jpg

    It is recommended that this part is checked for flatness at the flange. This can be checked at an engine machine shop of with specialist with a milling machine.

    44464901_258973094762859_9003974893942865920_n.jpg

    With the CTS manifold, some modifications are needed to clear the engine block at the power take off end, as shown in the picture above.

    44825775_2155774434442436_8527848417374765056_n.jpg

    EGT sensor and boss was later added, to monitor pre turbine temps and estimation of valve bridge temps. However this is optional as this was to aid calibration development.

    44519451_557221674713928_7655660655432695808_n.jpg

    As the secondary air pump and hardware was removed, a SAI blank was required.

    20161020_230846_001.jpg 20161020_225448.jpg

    M8 x 1.25 K Nuts, widely used on OTK kart hubs, are used to fasten the log manifold to the cylinder head. Great to fasten the exhaust manifold in places that are tight. Easy to remove and do retain clamping force at high exhaust manifold temperatures.

    20170401_183000.jpg 44653772_298813167621616_7362842957856112640_n.jpg
    M10 x 1.5 mm K nuts are used to fasten the turbo to the manifold, lower studs will need shortening for service clearance.

    44439565_2139006773082083_556469758304714752_n.jpg

    29026015_10155378407310496_8187366566921311170_n.jpg

    A PTE 46 mm wastegate was deemed large enough to by pass the turbo's heat flux for boost regulation.

    24946034_10155633718710660_1424873152_o.jpg 25434433_10155652037030660_357561639_o.jpg 25445047_10159585103915543_1198152003_o.jpg
    Exhaust system packaging 3 box + 200 cell cat to comply with UK MOT regs.

    42719557_241466786542821_6761576840977973248_n.png 43180734_10155858862580496_4615480802422030336_n.jpg

    Wastegate piping revised to suit the bellows that was added later.

    44752976_1991547957577239_4597200523962089472_n.jpg

    Turbocharger initially used was a PTE CEA6262 T4 0.63AR with a V band diffuser.

    R32 Intake CTS.jpg

    Of the several intake manifolds available on the market, the replica HGP/HPA item was used used.

    44478092_175805736682862_3201149313094778880_n.jpg 20170506_115908.jpg 44621779_187569615466085_1100166618878574592_n.jpg 44675085_1016573065170908_4630941559406198784_n.jpg
    These manifolds are raw castings and some work is required to make them fit the cylinder head flange foot print, extra ports to be added for brake servo, boost or manifold pressure, EVAP and any other tap for FPR, Recirc valves and so on. Some modifications also required to match the ports. An engine machine shop was used to create the tappings and welding AN fittings.

    20170304_141148.jpg

    M7x35mm fasteners required for inlet manifold. Allen head preferred. OE stock items can be used but will need shortening to 35mm.

    44591260_296374124301052_8912336402268553216_n.jpg 20170703_070426.jpg

    Intake gasket and throttle gasket can be made with gasket paper via the old skool way, taking a trace from the inlet manifold footpath. HS tuning of the US and Bartek motorsport does sell a MLS version but in this case, that product was not essential.

    44522653_2170714283176087_311416581005508608_n.jpg

    Injector rail with fuel lines has to be BFH/BHE 3.2 unit with a 3bar FPR, pouched from a 1.8T. Note, not 4 bar.

    44512418_263284714265741_760818589941891072_n.jpg

    For 500ps of injected fuel flow, extra capacity was engineered into the build so 630cc Bosch EV12 injectors were added.
    These injectors are direct replacement to the stock items in terms of function, benefiting transient response.
    Some modifications to injector loom required to replace the Sumitomo connections to connect to the square EV injector connectors.

    For the cooling system, use the complete cooling path from the doner V6 4 motion with the run-around pump. Use a new water pump.
    Some rework of cooling plumbing for the heater matrix and degas bottle was required for presentation.
    As mentioned with the SAI blank, the SAI pump and SAI relay was removed. This deletion of hardware was later addressed in the ECU calibration.

    30074838_10155454378930496_1307746549_o.jpg

    Modifications to the oil filter housing for filtered oil supply to CHRA.

    20170315_144512.jpg

    The sump needs an AN10 fitting for turbo oil return.

    20170315_144536.jpg

    The BFH/BHE sumps have oil baffles integrated into the sump to reduce slush and must be used with a matching dip stick and oil pump.


    20170315_144427.jpg 17105784_10154297590405496_1174649614_o.jpg 20170301_193107.jpg

    BUB/BMJ/BDB sumps have a more elaborate plastic insert for baffling and a matching dipstick (Tee handle type), along with a more shorter oil pump.

    As my car is primarily a road car, the original BHE sump was retained.

    Continued on next post
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
    vwenterprise and HPR like this.
  3. Apow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Birmingham
  4. Apow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Birmingham
    This awesome read and build. Right time to pull my finger out and start collecting more parts. Thx for the info really appreciated.
    Oh by the way.............Nice mk3 .:R32 picture ;)
     
    Toyotec likes this.
  5. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Location:
    Creating Pfredstarke
    17373352_10154352165020496_1244615540_o.jpg 17407584_10154352164970496_925363139_o.jpg 17408195_10154352169545496_122898577_o.jpg 44613868_497122457435706_1922954431486230528_n.jpg 20170318_195021.jpg
    New chains, both upper and lower, were fitted to ensure correct crank to cam correlation and time to spec using VW tool T10068
    Procedure commenced at by setting the notched crank gear to the main bearing separation as per the picture, setting the oil drive gear to the arrows, then with the upper drive gear attached, the copper links were set to correlate the cam phasers '24E' and '32A' to the small oil pump drive gear 066109057. In some instances, the gear 066109057, shared on the V5 engine, can be worn, so it is advised to inspect and replace if there is any doubt.

    27858832_10155298185940496_8955043301110367877_n.jpg 27750550_10155298185020496_8194758750334821381_n.jpg 27858931_10155298185710496_2012293821304054922_n.jpg

    29026445_10155378406520496_4982179044302569555_n.jpg

    A customised turbo intake pipe was made to channel air through a modified S3 airbox, adapted to house a new 90mm B5 RS4 HFM6 MAF.
    This HFM6 MAF, in a 90mm housing, was chosen for the ability to measure in excess of 600ps airflow while retaining reasonable low flow measurement, leaving sufficient room for future proofing. The plastic screen exposed to the turbo's inducer was removed to avoid being sucked in.
    Through a special bend, originally from an EVO7, with outlets designed to channel EVAP and Recirc away from the MAF, the lot was then connected to the turbo antisurge intake with a 100mm silicone hose.
    Finally truck bed liner paid was used to give a finish similar to the surrounding engine covers.
    A cone filter of suitable filtration surface area can also be used if desired.

    S3 original EVAP and Degas lines retained. Some small changes to piping to and from heater matrix carried out to ensure the degas bottle was the highest point of the cooling system, while still retaining a stock appearance.

    Stock NGK 7 iridium 24v plugs used, Stock coils used.
    Heat cloth was added around brake master cylinder, servo, servo vacuum supply and WG sense line. ( this is due to be changed ). As the system was due to change, this was an interim containment action.

    20161001_103536.jpg

    Fuel pump that would drop in and flow sufficient gasoline for this project is a DW65v 9-655-1025. That is for an AWD PQ34 platform vehicle.
    If you are attempting this stage of modification on a FWD platform vehicle, then you want to fit DW65 9-654-1025.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
    vwenterprise likes this.
  6. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Location:
    Creating Pfredstarke
    Gearbox.

    20170305_161450.jpg
    Some precautions were taken with respect to the gearbox, to add a small margin of durability.
    If one was to drag race such a conversion, further robustness actions, up to and including aftermarket gear-sets will be required.
    Below, lists what has been done for primarily fast road use and maybe the odd track days. No guarantees but less risk. This work was outsourced to a gearbox specialist.

    17121350_10154171915091333_1541741258_o.jpg 17101578_10154171915411333_1924364440_o.jpg
    The input shaft is hollow on the 02M gearbox. As a result it is prone to torsional loads, also bending and ultimately gear failure or total gearbox destruction.
    To reduce the resultant torsion and so some effect any bending, a steel shaft, machined for an interference fit is was inserted.

    17035365_10154291157690496_1118683075_n.png 17036501_10154172168346333_1561021979_o.jpg 17091453_10154172161226333_2074069527_o.jpg
    Shift forks pivots are another known weakness of this type of gearbox.
    The rivets were removed and replaced with an appropriate bolt then welded into place. Both sides of the fork pivots were welded to the shaft that moves the assembly.
    This does make the shift forks more durable to aggressive shifts.
    With this key work completed, the gearbox was rebuilt, using new bearings and seals and preloads set.

    17035880_10154163958191333_1446193715_o.jpg

    17036018_10154164023666333_1370735180_o.jpg

    The transfer case was next to be stripped, inspected and rebuilt with the correct preloads.

    20170402_111123.jpg 44509474_254033395310667_3075509291914887168_n.jpg 44474687_200249707572202_4146899986392547328_n.jpg 20170402_112335.jpg
    The clutch disc is carry over from the 1.8 20vT. It is a Sachs SRE 4 puck item. To ensure the vehicle has near stock NVH, the DMF is a Golf 4 R32 item. For near stock pedal effort the clutch cover is Luk BFH item.

    Note: You can also use a 2.8 AUE/AQP/BDE/BDF 24v DMF and matching clutch cover, as the latter also shares many similarities with 1.8T parts both OE and aftermarket.
    SMF kits do exisit, for those not that concerned about NVH and pedal effort refinements.

    Gearbox mounts are carry over 1.8T 02M items.

    The use of a V6 02M gearbox, means the 8L S3 driveshafts are simply reattached.

    17105782_10154172162516333_1184917157_o.jpg

    As has been demonstrated, while there has been robustness actions taken inside this gearbox, if you are too sudden or aggressive in applying double the torque it was designed for, you will still damage it.
     

    Attached Files:

    G60Dub and vwenterprise like this.
  7. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Location:
    Creating Pfredstarke
    No problem.
    Yeah that was a nice 'R32' MK3!
     
  8. vwenterprise New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    10
    Wow, I never saw the steel insert used in gearbox before. Its quite a manly bit of kit. It goes some way into helping the strength of things. Nice upgrade!
     
    Toyotec likes this.
  9. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Location:
    Creating Pfredstarke
    Powertrain integration to vehicle.
    44522686_1755544504554568_6469191036722741248_n.jpg 20170409_190236.jpg 20170416_110945.jpg 20170416_114026.jpg

    17952677_10154435873375496_2182962002523844670_n.jpg

    20170416_132352.jpg With the engine assembled and the gearbox attached, the lot was married to the vehicle, using an engine crane, a skate and a trolley jack where required. While there was assistance during this step, it can be done alone, once attention is given to the angle the engine and gearbox is lowed into the engine bay.
    For the 8L S3, this operation was carried out without the /Alternator A/C compressor/PAS pump in place.

    44576932_322387095022600_1593019347364741120_n.jpg
    44460852_284177272425007_8793276223741493248_n.jpg
    With the engine/gearbox fitted to the engine bay, some of the RH chassis leg, that allows a cross bar/boost pipe, had to be trimmed to allow the AC compressor to be fitted.

    44543206_491604551357837_9152922276709007360_n.jpg
    The rest of cooling system, comprising of many hoses and an after run pump was also reattached to the engine, along with the Golf V6 4 Motion PAS lines.
    As the components were removed from the doner in a modular fashion, it was pretty straight forward and the engine sat in the bay, as if it was meant to be there just like a Golf 4 Motion of MK4 R32.
    20170430_215010.jpg
    For extra front clearance, the 4 cylinder fan + cowling (top) was changed to a 6 cylinder item (bottom).

    20170704_073008.jpg

    While this makes the lot pretty much plug and play however the new location of the throttle body electronics does come very close to the fan i.e. < 10mm . This is not a concern providing good quality powertrain mounts are used. For a MK4 AWD VR6 platform, including the Seat Toledo 24v, this will not be a problem as the chassis legs are longer meaning more space.

    Continued on the next post - Building a FMIC, based on packaging, efficiency and the all important OEM ++ look.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  10. m1keh Forum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Likes Received:
    56
    Thanks for the great post!
     
    Toyotec likes this.
  11. IPG84 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    0

    Which one is the slimmer V6 version? hard to tell at this angle :)

    Keep up the informative posts!
     
  12. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Location:
    Creating Pfredstarke
    I have edited the caption under the picture to clarify :)
     
  13. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    2,976
    Location:
    Creating Pfredstarke
    Intercooling and air charge pipes.

    APX_APY_AMK_BAM_Twincooler.jpg

    On standard 8L S3 APY/AMK/BAM, 8N TT APX/BAM/BFV and LCR AMK/BAM, twin side mount intercoolers are mounted on both sides of the car and interconnected by a crossover tube.

    44576932_322387095022600_1593019347364741120_n.jpg 44460852_284177272425007_8793276223741493248_n.jpg

    On an 8L S3, this crossover tube also has a very small part to play in chassis stiffness and is fixed to the the underside of the chassis legs. One of these fixing points I had to cut out for the V6 A/C to be fitted.

    The original intercoolers, have special ducts extending from the lower bumper grills, allowing air to be forced through them, then exit out of the wheel arch to the brakes.
    These parts are fine for a 1.8T that has had a just remap, with intake manifold temperature achieving near 45 to 60 degs, depending on the conditions.
    This is pretty normal for most factory turbo cars. Of course as you make intake temps hotter, the air is less dense and your det limit becomes lower, meaning less engine torque can be achieved at that point.
    For the purposes of discussion, say the above scenario was for an engine that ran around 60-70% in the turbo's compressor map, with air compressed to a 2.4 pressure ratio, and 212 deg C.
    After intercooling at 2.3 to 2.1 PR and 65 deg C intake temp, you achieved 270bhp@6000rpm and 280lbft from 3200 to 4500rpm and a vehicle capable of 0-60 in 5.5 secs.
    With a larger engine/turbo, such as the 3.2 VR6, with the post compressor pressure ratios being the same, but with much higher airflow demands towards 530bhp, the factory side mount intercoolers would be restrictive meaning even greater air intake temps and a large turbo working closer to it's surge line.
    Working with a cooling systems specialist in such an exercise as this, helps massively as you would be able to tap in to a wealth of experience, without having to re invent the wheel yourself. I was privileged to have this resource was at my disposal.

    Below is the preliminary work, that resulted in the final intercooler package.

    It was suggested, the side mount ICs could be made thicker to increase surface area and reduce pressure drop. This is not common in the 8L S3 world. However, as I have shown in this post, the crossover pipe presented a challenge to packaging 6 cylinder accessory drive components. In addition the general charge air piping route from and away from the turbo was pretty much a fixed design as I was after a 'hidden look', so modification of the side mount intercooler system was ruled out.

    S3_8L_Cut_Bumper.jpg 5445761b244f42b5e293d4cfba2484de.jpg 9639768446_ac4b0f9ede_b.jpg Picture sources Audi Sport, instagram

    A generic front mount IC could be purchased. Because of the design of the inlets and outlets, meant the loss of the fog light grills and that was unacceptable. Some other designs were considered but a further compromise to chassis stiffness would occur as many of these design of FMIC require substantial modifications to the bumper support. I should remind readers the crossover bar and pipe was already made redundant.
    I am also informed, the plate designs of generic FMIC from auction sites, are not brilliant to IC efficiency.

    13282788_10153540833515496_138666488_o.jpg

    There is only 1 design of FMIC on the market for the 8L S3 that fits with little compromise. That design is made by Wagner shown above. The design is well made and fits without any modification bumper grills and bumper support. Only items that are relocated are the horns. For most folk with upgraded 8L S3 cars, this design is suitable but it does carry a premium.
    This is an engineering exercise and the project has been about engineering attributes seen elsewhere and translating into components using the relative expertise I am privileged to know.
    I called upon the cooling systems specialists, to design a FMIC, with end tanks packaging like the Wagner, but with their best cores and to dimensions that gave the best heat exchange surface area.

    25624555_10155150150340496_2075657733_o.jpg 25593070_10155150110550496_134915625_o.jpg
    To aid this part of the project, a Wagner part from a 1.8T 8L S3 car was borrowed from referencing and the front end on my own car was dropped off for the work to commence.

    22656566_10159344745920543_616779033_n.jpg 22657505_10159344745605543_1589894707_n.jpg 22662512_10159344746000543_1977216252_o.jpg 22662541_10159344745635543_386876465_o.jpg 22709709_10159344745820543_1555782759_n.jpg 23379447_10155031259245496_1217061234_o.jpg
    All the end tanks were made by hand in a slow tailor made process. The welded end tanks were then married up with WRC/WRX cores. These cores allow for tight packaging with the highest IC efficiency.
    Internally, an air spliter was inserted into the inlet side of the intercooler allowing the utilization of the entire intercooler core, a feature not present on the loaned part or on aftermarket items.

    25555435_10155150153900496_2128250921_n.png 25592965_10155667539755660_1243960714_o.jpg
    The lot was painted black then assembled to the front end of the vehicle. Then a support for the slam panel was fabricated.
    This one off hand made part, made in the UK, cost half the price of the Wagner 8L S3 part and I was kept informed of each step and the justification for the stages.

    25400760_10155652602840660_1356617049_o.jpg 25383442_10155651608255660_1653114974_o.jpg 25383428_10155651608115660_871135114_o.jpg

    Boost charge pipes were made to be hidden out of sight. This means engine bay washer bottles, reservoirs, were not relocated.

    The bumper could be refitted to the vehicle, hiding that extra additions from standard.

    27356158_10155262429720496_2409623407983944464_o.jpg

    30724707_10155480763975496_3153708815312300717_n.jpg

    Next up.
    Getting it started, using OE ME7 controls
     

    Attached Files:

  14. VAG

    VAG Forum Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Likes Received:
    5
    Makes me want to pull the 20V out my S3! awesome work!
     
  15. vrbanana Forum Junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Sunny Sheffield
    :thumbup: Good read
     
  16. dubbuds New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Enjoyed this a lot Brilliant **
     
  17. bonus85 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Soufamp'on
    FB does have its place - but I couldn't have put my 12v Caddy together without forums!

    VR.jpeg
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice