I'm no expert on this, this is just how I did it. While trying to keep things as simple as possible many problems occurred for me doing the conversion so hopefully this guide will help you to avoid these pitfalls. Step 1 - Fuel Supply The 16v cars have a lifter pump inside the tank (on the sender/pick up unit) and a high pressure pump outside with an accumulator and filter. These are no use for carbs as the lifter pump cant supply enough pressure and the high pressure way way waaaaayyyy to much. To get round this we used a sender/pick up unit from a mk2 carb model as shown below There is a 3 wire plug on the injection unit and 2 on the carb unit. We used a bit of trial and error to get the fuel gauge working and got rid of the wire for the pump. The carb unit has a return on it which you wont need so bung that up with some araldite or similar Now that you've ebayed your old pumps you can buy a new facet red top pump and a filter king regulator. The facet will provide fuel for cars up to 200bhp and the filter king can go under your bonnet so your carb tuner can set the perfect pressure while fettling your carbs. Dont bother buying one of the 20 ebay square / solid state pumps as they are on their useable limit on a 1600 8V car. Another handy point is to buy a filter king with gauge. Its only a fiver more. My pump is now where the high pressure injection pump once lived and the filter king is under the bonnet. Step 2 - Choosing a manifold This may sound easy but its a bit of a minefield. All the manifolds out that are available all have their own Pros and Cons in my view but its up to you what you want. The TWM style manifold. The TWM style manifold I bought from America was a beautiful piece of automotive machining. I'm sure its probably the best flowing out of the ones i've seen its also the most problematic. Its quite a long manifold design which will make you foul the radiator and possibly the slam panel if yer trumpets are big enough. Also its in two bits. I dont know if that makes it easier or worse but the sheer length of the thing forced us to abandon it. The Mangoletsi This is the most expensive (244!!!!) I've seen and also the smallest. Ive heard mixed things about the airflow with these and I avoided it for that reason (plus i'm tight) The Rowlands Rowlands manifolds come from South Africa. They make a long and a short manifold that are very reasonably priced. I went for the long manifold which is in between the mangoletsi and twm style for length. Its not as nicely finished as the other 2 but then you can buy a couple of them with cash to spare compared to the mangoletsi. I think i paid around 110 delivered. It also has a slight problem....your carbs will sit at a slight angle but my car has suffered no issues with this and I've been in touch with my local tuner who tells me that they can cope with an angle of 7 degrees. Step 3 - The Epic alternator VS manifold fight. I cant talk about the mangoletsi manifold when it comes to this but as for the other two we were left scratching our heads. In the end we flipped the alternator over so its further away and lower. To secure it we simply got the local welder to lengthen the VW tensioner and hey presto we had a non fouling alternator / manifold combination. We used a 900mm belt. If you want a bolt on solution the below is courtesy of RubJonny (shamelessly copied and pasted) mk3 golf early non-ac 1.8-2.0 alt setup (look for the massive spring under the alternator) straight fit and all brackets made out of aluminium so pretty light and will give you a nice thick ribbed belt. the crank pulley needs to be a mk3 16v one but rest can come from 8v donor. If the mk2 has pas the mk3 setup also straight swap and way better design Step 4 - The bloody water outlet. This small seemingly inconspicuous part causes the most bother. It fouls your manifold, throttle linkage and is a pain to get at but if you prepare yourself for it here you might get through it. The KR has a plastic water outlet. I dont know what they were thinking. It was the 80's and things were supposed to be built properly then without cost cutting and worrying about the environment. There are options but its a case of trial and error with each to see how they are going to work with your manifold and throttle linkage. The plastic VW ones shown below are available easily on ebay. The corrado / ABF one is on the left and its pretty long. The standard mk2 one is one the right. The problems we had with these were that they fouled and we couldn't adjust anything to make them fit. The AUDI alloy water outlet we have below is a rare thing fitted to some audi 80. Its part number is 053 121 133 G . They often appear on ebay, if not try german ebay and search using the part number. The benefit of this is it can be tig welded, adjusted and added to as you please and how good your local welder is. Just remember its 30 years old and could possibly melt under the heat! On the left we have a standard one and the right is one we butchered earlier The solution we came up with was to get the local fabricator to make us exactly what we needed to suit the rowlands manifold. Its the same guy we used for the alternator bracket and he came up trumps again. The problem we had was that the plastic versions hit the manifold as they go off to the left and right. I think the standard golf one also hit the throttle linkage as it comes near enough horizontal from the engine. The best thing to do is to get an alloy one and have it cut and welded or make your own. Step 5 - Throttle linkage The thing about the KR carb conversion is that the carbs are quite far apart compared to your average ford or vauxhall engine. I must have tried 4 or 5 link levers before I scrapped the standard style dellorto linkage and went for something a bit nicer. This is the mangoletsi linkage for dellorto DHLAs. Its defitnately the nicest design, very low profile so it wont foul the bonnet and it comes with a VERY LONG link lever as seen below This link lever is also the part that can foul your water outlet so it'll be a bit of trial and error. We used the standard throttle cable but I'm going to upgrade it in the future to a twin cable set up. Step 6 - The radiator. If you go for a short manifold and short trumpets skip this step, everybody else have a butchers. The longer your manifold and trumpets are the more creative you have to get with the radiator. Ive seen all sorts from radiators mounted on the passenger side like a UR quattro, radiators that are half as tall but twice as thick and the simplest solution, move the standard one. This picture shows my rowlands manifold without trumpets or filters and how close it is to the rad With a bit of cutting and welding you can move it forward so you end up with this Obviously its throwing hot air into the carbs but its 400 cheaper than a custom rad and you can retain that OEM plus look whatever the hell that is. Step 7 - The ignition I havent really got this part finished on my conversion but there are options. You can run the standard KR ecu which uses vacuum to guess how much the engine needs. Did he just say guess??? Yes he did. This is not the best solution as the KR ecu is a simple thing and youve taken it way out of its comfort zone. Ive found its a bit hit and miss whether it works but you'll definately gain power with a modern set up. Ill be going for Aldon Amethyst ignition (results to follow) however there is megajolt as well to name a few. Jonolds is using a clockwork dizzie whatever that is, i think it involves a key to wind it up! Step 8 - Get It LIT! Hopefully I've covered everything, if not tell me and I'll edit this post so i look dead clever lol Carbs are not an exact science so you'll need to get them set up but i'm sure the smile will be beaming across your face when you hear the induction roar!
Great start, a few rough edges to knock off, but well done for getting this far. As I'm probably way older than the average club member, a few words about clockwork dizzies. I don't feel qualified for this, but what the f. In the olden days, the 'driver' had an advance and retard lever on his controls. He would retard the ignition enough so that when he hand cranked the engine to start it it didn't kick back and break his arm. Once going he knew he had a couple of choices when motoring, if he needed max power mid range (all 2.8hp) he would give it 30 degrees. (in those days the combustions system was so poor that might have 40-50 degrees). At a cruise on light throttle he could eek a few more mpg's out by going for a few more degrees advance. Next development was an automatic adv/retard lever built into the spark distributor.. So 'clockwork' refers to springs, weights and centrifugal force. Two centrifugal weights on springs within the dizzy hold the backplate fully retarded at low revs to give you a nominal 8 degrees BTDC so the starter motor can turn it (300-800rpm) during crank and tickover. As speed increases the centrifugal force moves the weights out until they hit there limit (3000 ish) which moves the distributor backplate so making the spark point occur earlier (advancing the ignition ie making it happen before TDC). Disadvantages. The springs are usually in pairs and lose the tension. the pivots wear, springs are at best 20% accurate, the slope (gradient) of the spring characteristic may not be linear, there may be stiction (deadband) in the mechanism, the system may not return to where it started next rev, etc etc Advantages: few: cheap is you can find a dizzy. Ditch the points and at least the coil switching should be repeatable. No ecu's, minimal wires. reasonable power without pinking Hope this of some help to someone Jon
Nothing wrong with clockwork dizzies...well not too much...as long as the c.r isn't too high relative to the cams used a distributor is a decent budget solution. On the 16v I "think" some Peugeot 205/405 distributors can be adapted to fit, and also an early Seat 1300 or 1500 unit (pre VW ownership with the "system Porsche" engine) I think works too. As for aftermarket on a budget...we looked at the Aldon unit recently and didn't feel it man enough for much more than low power engines of early vintage that don't need too strong a spark. It "may" work out ok so will be interesting to see how that goes Craig. Out of the budget options I'd go with (and have used) a mega jolt unit. It's not as high end as a box from MBE/Omex/Emerald etc but to be fair it works ok. The downside is the need to use Ford bits on a VW...I use to work at a Ford dealer nearly 20 years ago...the Edis units that are used with the mega jolt kits failed so often they kept me employed!...so keep a couple of spares if going down that route. As for the induction side... The Rowland manifold looks like the same length as the ones we do...so I'd use 60mm trumpets with it. We also make a water outlet that cures the clearance issues and allows the link arm to swing down past. Also...warm air being drawn into the carbs is a sure fire hp killer...as is sock filters that get sucked onto the trumpets under load..totally screws the airflow. I dropped a radiator down low on a big bumper car a while back...not sure how it would work out on a small bumper car...I removed the radiator crossmember tho and mounted the rad on two brackets welded to the bumper support...again not sure if thats possible on a small bumper model.
Seems here to be most active people on carb conversation. So,I got stock KR engine and boguht R1 RN09 carbs then faced problem that information about jet,choke etc choose is poor for bike carbs ,however huge amount is for Webers 1)Is them equal? 2)Only here read about mistic angle bike carbs need.True? 3)Is there any manufacters that offers jets,chokes etc lile maybe Dynojet/Factory pro in UK/Europe
Bogg bros seem to be the main experts with bike carbs. bike carbs will need to be set at an angle for the carb bowl. I tried bike carbs on a ford cvh engine years ago and I enjoyed the driveability but felt they strangled the engine
Still works, clockwork. Not sexy, not 32 bit, not V3.2.2, but plant your right foot and off your go. No software glitches, ECU issues, noise spikes, poor elec connections, EOBD blah blah. Can't remember ever losing a spark on a VW competing or road with a dizzy system. 20+ years. Kiss of death probably for next weekend rallying..... Jon
My two racers use early VW dizzies with a lumenition optronic conversion so its 'non points' I like lumenition kit as it still works properly 20+ years old Jon
