Just about the cheapest mod you`ll see... *Update - Now with added boost*

Discussion in 'Diesel' started by StuMc, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. gigaz Forum Member

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    guys I was just as enthusiast about this as you are, a few years ago
    how can I be a "scaremonger" if I was just saying how to improve the thing???

    this mod is so good it might seem magical that something this simple can extract 20 horses and a TON of torque down low.

    to be clear: I've never seem a piston like that just by using the mod alone on a stock motor

    the problem comes when you start modifying without thinking it through first.
    on a tdi you have:
    1-turbo and IC
    2-pump and injectors
    3-engine/cooling system etc..

    as a general rule of thumb you upgrade them a step at a time, so you never get so much boost that your injectors can't cope, or too much fuel and your turbo can't supply enough flow, or too much of everything and stock cooling system can't cope.

    the above mod is like taking the injectors to stage 2, not a big problem used like you guys are describing.
    if you add injectors a step above AND the mod, that becomes a problem as the setup becomes unbalanced

    BTW 1.25Bar does seem the safe limit for the T15 but take a look at its efficiency maps applied to the 1.9tdi ;)

    those with boost gauge might notice that boost increases with the mod on, as the turbo is so small that the ecu can't regulate it any more.


    EDIT:
    the first picture wasn't an irresponsible pursuit of max power, it was an irresponsible pursuit of a seven series BMW at excess 200Kph for more than an hour without realising the temperature gauges were on the red ;)

    -Is this your own engine/experience?
    my brothers, car had more than 500k km when modding began.. so already half dead when we started
    -Was the first one running increased boost levels too?
    about 1.2Bar constant, spikes of 1.5+ nothing done to the turbo, the ecu can't just regulate it anymore
    -With the second one, how much was `way too much` boost?
    that was a PD130 with a hybrid VB turbo, a very bad chiptuner and excess 2Bar, everything else stock
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  2. aidanb22 Forum Member

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    Stu, your mod increases injection duration, so the pump injects fuel for slightly longer than normal.
    The injectors inject more fuel within standard duration.

    Standard duration is ideal, the most fuel in the least possible time. You may find your injectors alone smoke enough to not need the resistor mod. Trial and error, as long as you keep visible smoke down to a minimum, should be ok.

    To up the boost, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TURBO-MANUAL-BOOST-CONTROLLER-NOT-BLEED-VALVE-/220537042109?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item33590834bd needs setting up with a boost gauge, you could safely go a couple of psi higher.
     
  3. aidanb22 Forum Member

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    To keep in the spirit of the original post, a bleed valve will do.

    I must agree though, a remap would be better. There was a matching remap for these, not sure if it was damaged or overwritten though. (Gigaz, Ruben did that remap)
     
  4. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    The post reads very much like `this is what will happen to your pistons if you use larger injectors with this mod`.

    Your opening line was `for those adding injectors to this mod...` followed by pictures of damaged pistons. This would suggest the damage was done by doing so, which it clearly wasn`t, hence, `scaremongering`.

    Please explain how boost can increase? On a stock turbo/wastegate the boost level is fixed, and won`t be altered by increased fuelling.

    So, proving exactly what I said about responsibility of use. This damage is clearly by people not running their modified car correctly, not because the cars were modified.

    As per the opening of this post, just adding pictures and saying this was damage done purely by the modifications alone is mis-leading.

    :thumbup:
     
  5. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    Cheers, Aidan. I looked more into last night, and realised an MBC would be the way forward. :thumbup:

    I already have a boost gauge to fit, so upping the boost to a safe level will be easy enough.

    A bleed valve though seems a bit too `bodgy` though, so I`ll be going for a `proper` spring-type.

    I know it`s not in the `spirit` of the thread, but I do like the look of the Turbosmart ones. Not bad price either.
     
  6. danster Forum Addict

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    EGT gauge is highly recommended when modifying diesels. ;)

    EGT = Exhaust Gas Temperature.
     
  7. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    What kind of temps do you reckon I`d see, Dan?

    Apprently the standard turbo/manifold is good for 1000deg sustained. Doubt it`d see anything near as high as that, and certainly wouldn`t be for sustained periods.
     
  8. aidanb22 Forum Member

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    Not exactly the best way, but if your not smoking heavily you should be ok. Keep long top speed runs down too!
     
  9. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    That was my thought. I`ll probably give it a couple of V-max runs just out of interest, but really as a daily my main aim for this is as a `point and squirt` machine rather than flat-out for any sustained periods, so I reckon it should be safe enough.
     
  10. Brookster

    Brookster Paid Member Paid Member

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    Stu

    Have you advanced the Injection timing for the additional fuel to keep the EGT's down.

    One thing that the T4 Transporter lot do when increasing fuel on the TDI's & D's.
     
  11. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    Not yet, since the mod is only switched on for short bursts, so not worth it really, but I will be doing so when I fit the bigger injectors. :thumbup:
     
  12. gigaz Forum Member

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    install injectors then remap is good thinking [:D]
    that allows to inject more fuel in the same duration, what is great for efficiency.

    mods like that lower overall fuel consumption :thumbup:

    I would still install this mod, with the switch, for those times when a bit more is needed
    I.E. not like my brother did[:x]
     
  13. m1keh Forum Member

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    I understand how they do this on the D's but not the TDI's, the control system on the TDI corrects the timing to a certain degree no matter where you put the mechanical posistion of the pump. Unless they are changing the Maps in the ecu?
     
  14. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    I think what Brookie means (and what I`ll be doing) is recalibrating the fuel flow-rate, to smooth out rough idling and `shuddering` when slowing, both of which are the side-effects of higher flowing injectors.
     
  15. aidanb22 Forum Member

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    Had neither problem with those size injectors
     
  16. gigaz Forum Member

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    that is the case on a TD, TDIs use a valve to open/close wastegate at ecu's will, and that ecu ain't very smart ;)

    the new models will throw a code "boost deviation" if boost level stays over a preset level for too long.
    the plastic box ecu models will just close the wastegate and rely on fuelling (smoke maps) in order to keep boost down, its simple and it works, it will only regulate again if boost goes way out of the range

    this mod overrides those smoke maps, and boost goes beyond stock as anyone using this mod can check
     
  17. gigaz Forum Member

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    they change the control range, the ecu can only adjust a fixed amount of degrees, if it decides to advance 24 but physically can only go out to 22, 22 it is.
    they sacrifice a few degrees in the ecus ability to retard injection for a few more advance.
    the mechanical range is smaller than needed by the ecu;)
     
  18. m1keh Forum Member

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    But when it is set it in the middle of it's range it's going to be able to reach all of it's control range on a stock map I should hope?
     
  19. m1keh Forum Member

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    Won't stu's car be an aluminium boxed msa15.xx ecu? And therefore have a bit better boost control than the plastic boxed ones?
     
  20. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    Happy days, then. Less fannying around! :lol: :thumbup:
     

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