Hi im just looking for a bit of info from anyone in the know on this swap. As im due some time off soon and this needs to happen as Vento running gear is getting a bit tired. Cars: 1997 Vento 1.8cl 4 stud 1995 Golf GTI 16v I've had the Vento for going on 5 years now and its always been faithful but I managed to acquire a mk3 16v with horrendous bodywork but solid underneath & running gear. Anyone else would have probably just parted the golf out on their drive & been done with it or used it for a similar project so its a clean kill lol. As far as i know its as plug & play as you can get in terms of engine swaps down to, I appreciate that im going to have to probably go to 5 stud widetrack & everything related unless I acquire some g60 callipers or other suitable replacement (open to suggestions). Are there any pitfalls or things anyone in the know can warn me about before I start pulling it apart? I have googled around about doing this swap before people suggest doing so, but im just piecing bits together mainly about doing the swap into a mk2 or mk1. Im after anything that might save me a headache & potentially anyone else looking to do something similar. Will do a build thread showing any problems I find to help the next person who contemplates anything similar. Eventually I would like to go 1.8t but just using what i've got and keeping the budget down.
List of things that I know I have to swap to save anyone else the time known should all come off on front subframe & bolt straight back in engine loom should plug straight into current fuse box rear beam needs swapping widetrack suspension setup needed to accomodate the bigger brakes can swap driveshafts & gearbox flanges to keep 4 stud but will have to get custom/g60 brakes setup hydraulic cylinders & pedal box need to swap to hydraulic clutch & flyby wire throttle unknown (by me) anti roll bar might be different size or diameter to reflect this steering rack unknown due to needing to swap to 5 stud widetrack suspension unsure how much hassle it is converting to abs (vento doesnt have it, golf does) might need a flex pipe / custom exhaust to manifold joint
8v/16v/Vr6/Vr6 Syncro all have pluschassie, which means: different ball joints that are titled, longer control arms, 5/100 hubs (was also found on cars without plus chassis), stronger ball joints, longer control arms and stronger tie rods, slightly extended drive shafts, as well as 20mm shorter springs + somewhat stiffer dampers. ET 43 on vehicles with Plus chassis, and 35 on the cars without unless memory fails .. could also be ET 38 Also rear axle is ~ 20mm longer on the front wheel drive cars, which increases track width ~ 10mm per side. the intent of this was to strengthen the entire chassis / steering geometry generally at them more powerful engine options GTI, TDI, VR6 (which was at the time), and increase the track width of ~ 10mm per side for better handling.
you dont have to go 5 stud if you dont want, all your runnign gear will bolt up to the abf, you can either use the abf box with your vento shafts or fit the vento box to the abf after swapping the clutch over. the hydro clutch bolts stright to your pedal box as does the shifter so its no big deal to use the abf box. as for the track width up front theres only a couple mm in it since all the 4 stud mk3 are widetrack too. at the rear measure your beam as often the gti beams are the same width as non-gti seems a bit random what cars actually got in reality vs whazt the various technical documents you find about the place say they 'should' have main thing to check is what style loom the abf has. if its late enough it'll have the engien and lighting looms bundled together and it'll be a straight swap. if its early the engien and lighting looms will be separate, which means you'll have to do some work to make them fit your late type vento
Thank you all very much for your replies, if I think of anything else I'll ask & when I start I'll do a build thread incase anyone else wants to do anything similar just so its all in the same place. Makes it easier for everyone & you don't have to search multiple forums. I know mine being a 97 vento is one of the last ones registered in the uk so no doubt in true VW form its got whatever was left over in the factory at the end of the production run. This is all with the goal of eventually going 1.8t but i'll need loads of bits off the 16v to do that anyway so might as well do this first. If I think of anything else I'll jump back on in the next few days
Hi, Re. the Abs; The donor car, being a '95, may or may not have a brake proportioning valve on the rear axle (the change from with to w/out on Abs-equipped cars was early '95). Though if you intend to use the disc rear brakes, I think the valve would be different anyway. Some ways to tell are: Where's the Abs Ecu? Under the rear seat is before, attached to modulator block is after. Are there two relays, numbered 79 & 179, mounted on top of the regular fusebox? If so, it's before. Switch on with the handbrake released (hold the footbrake if necessary); if the handbrake/low fluid lights up and (hopefully) goes out in time with the Abs lamp, it's after.
later abs cars with discs drop the valve as well, so long as you fit the abs rings you should be fine to fit rear discs if you dont already have them with your old abs system I would have thought?
Thanks again for the replies, I'll take any advice I can get. I've a garage, lifts & a mate who's a mechanic is gonna be helping me just handy to know in advance. The game plan was to swap over everything from the gti as running gear in really good condition, enthusiast owned for its whole life until the guy I got it from had it for 6 months and bent the rear axle on a kerb. (leather handbook came fat with reciepts for mk1, mk2, mk3 & corrado stuff all to the original owners name) The vento doesnt actually have abs fitted to it at all. Its a 1.8 cl ADZ engine code if that helps anyone in the know with identification of whats fitted. Am I right in understanding then that the bigger gti callipers will fit the 4 stud hubs & in turn will fit my coilovers? I always thought that you needed to go 5 stud for the bigger callipers or is that just on mk1 & mk2's? As dont really fancy trying to stop the vento in a hurry on the original brakes my quad bike probably has bigger discs & callipers lol
if you stay 4 stud and your brakes now are at least 256mm then if the 16v has 280s then they'll swap straight over. as for the rear disc setup if you're on drums now then it'll all swap, since you dont have ABS you will probably have the bias valve already so thats one less thing to worry about, just a case of mod/redo the hardlines on your beam for the calipers. You could fit a gti rear beam with internal roll bar this would be a good excuse for full overhaul of the bushes etc. If you have discs already then keep the 16v bits as spares or swap if in better nick If you do go for the 5 stud swap then as above, and fit mk3 gti rear discs if you have disc already, or you'll have to add rear calipers from the donor to get the rear 5 stud. As for converting to 5 stud or not really it boils down to what wheels you want to fit. Yes the 5 stud running gear is slightly better for handling but its not like 4 stud cars dont handle well, I'm happy with my mk2 running 4 stud widetrack, certainly corners well enough If the 16v gearbox is good I would fit it though, you got all you need for that. I'd have the later MK4 02J shifter and tower setup though, nice upgrade over the 02a stuff the mk3 has. I wouldnt bother with the ABS system either, but thats up to you
As the doner is a 95 model year, is it fitted with ATE calipers and 288mm front discs? Like these? You also suggested you plan on fitting a 1.8T engine. While components from your lesser powered 1.8 75 PS engined car will interchange, from a safety point, future proofing and handling pespective, I would fit the suspension components that matches the more powerful engine. Specialist insurance companies like to know your modifications have been carried out with some thought.
Sorry I've been working all weekend was hoping to get it on the ramps to answer some questions, I will endeavour to do this one night this week to give you guys the info you need. To be honest its probably looking like going with the 5 stud to save on having to buy wheels at this point (plus the MG wheels I have fitted look good but tend to wash out under enthusiastic cornering as they are pretty much at the limit of what will clear the arches)
Hi guys sorry I went quiet. Long story got cancer, lost well paid job, beat cancer, got new job, got cancer again and beat it again. Fast forward 6 months and I've got some spare cash saved up. Getting back on with this. Hopefully over the coming months barring any catastrophes can get this finally sorted. Don't know if anyone is active on here anymore but just wanted to thank everyone who has replied. In case this does help anyone else down the line I will document it as best I can. Long story short thanks for all your replies and get yourselves checked if you are ever suspicious with anything
Sorry to hear about the illness and job but good news you are on the mend. I am away to do the same and it has been so long since I played with a Mk3 that this thread has helped jog the memory!
Cheers buddy main thing is cancer is a dijkhead and it's gone! Thread update for me Been dragging all the parts back out as they have been buried behind scrap tyres. Got my mates garage for a week in September so hopefully can get stuck in. Ordered some AP Coilovers And some other related bits & bushings Going to have a shopping spree on Friday to get everything on it's way to do the front end. Brake callipers need some work so rebuilding them. Found a kit on autodoc Going to do everything at the front end before I touch the rear so I can use the handbrake for moving it round as the rear is a lot less work. Managed to source an oem wing because I'm an over grown child and I think they look cool. Not too offensively priced either I'll throw any part numbers that might help people on the next post after my shopping spree.
I've ordered New wishbones New ball joints New track rod ends R32 rear bushes for wishbones Engine mounts Clutch slave and master cylinder Brake master cylinder Radiator Tank straps 3 bar fuel pump New sender Clutch cable Accelerator cable All fluids New discs (in answer to toyotec they are 280mm on donor) Still need to order Brake pads Drop links and anti roll bar bushings (need to double check Brake hoses (need to take another look and see if it's a 4 or 6 hose kit needed) Steering rack bushes (need to check size) Suspension bushes (waiting to see what ap coilovers come with ) Possibly need to source rhd power steering hoses depending on condition of vento ones if they will go again Might need to source Clutch pipes and some other external gearbox/ transmission bits Might look at mk 4 golf shifter upgrade Probably a whole mess of stuff I didn't even think of
Will need to find an image hosting site but got started today took stock of everything and got all my gear to the garage and started getting things disconnected and labelled up. Looks like the abf loom is going to need some love as a couple of the connectors are damaged or i may just source another loom if I find much more damage. Hoping to get the adz engine out over the next couple of days. If anyone needs a complete adz engine with loom get in touch before it goes on the bay or goes the scrapyard. Coilovers are delayed due to a supplier not putting my order through and ap having a 6 week back log when I switched supplier. So will have to leave the current suspension on for now. Rounded off one of the rear caliper bolts so need to extract that tomorrow and get them rebuilt. Hubs are getting shot blasted this week.
you can upload images straight to the forum once you have something like 10 posts depending which abf plugs are damaged the adz may have what you need. the loom round the back of the inlet will almost certainly be shot and want replacing, no big deal though. the 2 pin plug with black and brown wires can go in the bin while you're there its for the breather heater which is unused on UK models
Cheers for the heads up dude it's just appeared so that must have been what was needed. Haven't traced back what the wires are yet looks like the guy didn't listen to me when I said don't cut anything. I'm hoping it's just going to be stuff that was going to the 90's aftermarket alarm if so I can work with that. There is a special place in hell reserved for that alarm. Was particularly good at singing the song of its people in the middle of the night. Parts delivery is due today so hopefully I'll have some good stuff to report back with later Thanks for the earlier advice dude. That's been a god send
