Mk3 8v into Mk2 1.3

Discussion in '8-valve' started by PhilRyder, Jul 31, 2021.

  1. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yes the mk2 cable will drop right in the hole when the mk3 sender is removed
     
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  2. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    Speedo electric sender unscrews from gearbox drive and leaves a nice recipient for the cable to screw on,
    20210815_212615.jpg 20210815_212622.jpg (had a Mk4 drive to hand)
     
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  3. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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    Engine out :thumbup:
    That trolley didn't quite make it the 300 yards back to our garage :lol:
    IMG_20210820_155934629_HDR.jpg
     
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  4. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    Good job there Phil, the boy looks very happy with it.
    Hopefully you didnt have a wheel collapse like my old engine trolley did.
     
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  5. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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    Two wheels collapsed by the time we got it back and the bed has bent. It's a bin job [:v:]
     
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  6. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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    Tried to do a bit more today but getting the loom out with the car in the garage is pretty much impossible due to lack of access inside the cabin. That will have to wait a little longer.
    In the meantime I took some pictures so I could ask some more questions [:D]

    Rear left Mk3 mount (top) compared to Mk2 (bottom). The actual mount is orientated differently. Does this remain as is and the MK2 big block bracket will fit both the engine and the mount?
    IMG_20210821_104728594.jpg
    IMG_20210821_122419585.jpg

    Top is Mk3 rear right mount and bottom is Mk2. I'm still not clear which mount I need as there appear to be several different ones each ending in a different letter?

    IMG_20210821_104800110.jpg
    IMG_20210821_122443800.jpg

    Top is front Mk3 and bottom Mk2 front brackets. It seems clear I need the Mk2 big block bracket. To confirm, does the starter mount the same way in the replacement bracket?
    IMG_20210821_140838118.jpg
    IMG_20210821_122450517_HDR.jpg

    What is this? To do with the charcoal cannister and can be binned?
    IMG_20210821_094403842.jpg

    What is this?
    IMG_20210821_104813743.jpg

    What is the big black block thing in the bottom right of this picture?
    IMG_20210821_104728594.jpg

    Thank you All.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  7. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    Mk2 rear engine bracket if use mk2 subframe and mount, or swap in mk3 frame and use mk3 one that is bolted to the 2.0 engine. Mk2 has 3 bolt to rubber, mk3 is just single.
    The mk3 gearbox rear bracket should go straight on your mk2 rubber mount.
    Need mk2 1.8 front mount bracket to fit crossmember, angle of it is different.
    Unsure of thing by charcoal canister, a purge solenoid valve maybe?
    Electric box of trickery is fan control module.
    Black block on subframe is a harmonic balance weight, I removed mine off vr6 setup, cant remember if mk2 has bit to bolt it on. Incidentally the mk7 golf era cars suffer with noise from rear subframe and it's a mod to retrofit an audi s3 one to them or leon etc. The weight is quite handy to put ballast in drawers when setting up the fronts on them in work by the way.
    May not be 100%, but sure there will be more knowledgeable input.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  8. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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  9. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    The two mounting brackets I have put by for you should let you keep the mk2 subframe and it all bolt together.
    For the fan relay its probably easier to retain the mk2 thermal switch, I have a 2 speed fan if you want it, I kept my rad switch and fitted 2 separate fans on mine due to space. You could just get the 3 pin sensor and wire it from there, supplied from under battery area, I'll grab a photo later for you.
    Weight would be perfect to keep scribbled notes on a conversion from blowing away too.
     
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  10. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    1. drop mk3 subframe, fit to mk2 as is, though I'd fit new mount. its either that, or swap a mk2 1.6-1.8 rear bracket and keep mk2 subframe, again new mount while apart

    2. gearbox mount is same mk2/3, but you need the MK2 gearbox bracket regardless of mk2 or mk3 subframe because of the gear linkage piece which is attached to it is in a slightly different position on the mk3 bracket vs mk2

    3. you need mk2 1.6-1.8 front bracket, becasue the mk3 front mount sits lower and flatter than the mk2, and you cant use the mk3 crossmember. if you could get a corrado vr6 front crossmember then you can use mk3 bracket. the bolts for starter motor screw into the front bracket 1.6-1.8

    4. charcoal canister system, all of it to the bin blocking off any open ports on the mk3 inlet/throttle. on the mk3 fuel tank, plumb the breather on the side of the filler neck direct to the outlet in the top of the mk2 filler surround

    5. fan control unit, you bin all of that keep mk2 fan wiring

    6. balance weight/vibration damper, dont need it but can keep it if you want
     
  11. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    Knew someone more knowledgeable would clarify,
    Thanks @rubjonny about the gearbox bracket, I've learnt that now. Presume its linkage clearance issues? Is the mk3 tunnel higher than a mk2, as reference really?
    Are the o2a/o2j type brackets the same for mk2/3?
     
  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yes exactly that, becasue mk3 tunnel is higher, shifter/rod is higher and pretty much all the related linkages are different to compensate. the weigted rod can be used as we all know though ;)

    yeah the 02a gearbox bracket is same for everything which runs one, corrado, mk3, passat etc including 6 cylinder.

    front and rear engine brackets differ depending how many cylinders car has and subframe/crossmember mounts used. so for mk2 front crossmember and/or subframe, mk3 abf/tdi is no good you need g60 or corrado/passat 4 cylinder. mk3 subframe = mk3 abf/tdi rear bracket, corrado vr6 type crossemember = mk3 abf/tdi front bracket.

    vr6 brackets all specific, but instead of the corrado vr6 front crossmember you can use the mk2vr6 type conversion front mount with mk2 crossmember if you can find one. this also works for 4 cylinder as well so mk2 crossmember + abd/tdi front bracket
     
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  13. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    Brilliant, thanks for the info, always good to learn stuff, and never know what can find.
    Cheers D
     
  14. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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    Update.
    Loom is now out. We went to great pains to get everything that runs into the engine bay. I'm sure we don't need most of it but.......
    Tank is out, fuel lines to follow and pump loom.

    I cannot find the immobiliser gubbins? Can anyone put up a picture of it so I know what it looks like please?
    Also, how is the immobiliser deactivated if not using the original key?
    There does seem to be an aftermarket alarm that has long since been deactivated. Does the MK3 come with one as standard?
     
  15. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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  16. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thanks Dave, yes I've found a box that looks like that. I could have sworn it was an aftermarket thing. It's definitely been messed with, perhaps it's already been bypassed.
     
  17. dodgy

    dodgy Paid Member Paid Member

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    Open it up and see if circuit board is ok, may have an emulator even.
    May be easier if compatible to use the earlier loom you have, no immobiliser and separate to headlight loom like the mk2, maybe see if the plugs correspond on engine and fusebox end?
     
  18. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    easiest way, start at the steering column. if it has immobiliser the reader coil is clipped round ignition lock, follow it back till you find module. pull that out, carefully chase the rest of the wiring from it. pull the dash loom out as well then you can split off the diagnostics port wiring and grab the diagnostics jumper block as well
     
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  19. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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    Right, got it. What a B'atch that was. This bit probably deserves it's own thread but as it part of the whole shamoozle we can talk about it here.
    Box out along with transponder reader.
    Out of the left hand plug there are 5 wires, two brown, black, grey and grey/white stripe. There is then the black plastic joiner piece out of which comes a thick black earth wire, thin black, grey and grey/white stripe.
    IMG_20210830_124910.jpg

    Grey goes to here.
    IMG_20210830_125232.jpg

    Black goes to here. it joins with another black wire which I have clipped.
    IMG_20210830_124951.jpg

    The grey/white stripe goes to here.
    IMG_20210830_125246.jpg

    Is this the diagnostics jumper block? It is the connector that was by the cigarette lighter. It has 4 wires, red/white stripe, yellow, brown and grey/white stripe.
    IMG_20210830_125326.jpg

    These four wires go in various different direction to this....
    IMG_20210830_125356.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  20. PhilRyder

    PhilRyder Paid Member Paid Member

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    Questions............

    So according to @rubjonny 's instructions at the beginning of the thread (copied below)........

    (for immobiliser its dead easy, pull the box and reader coil out along with all the wiring to it without cutting. the black wire needs ignition live, earth just pop to the stud on A pillar. the diagnostics wiring just plugs in where needed. remove the diagnostics jumper block from above the fusebox. find the vagcom port next to the ashtray and pull it out of the dash harness. dont cut the grey/white wire, snip the red/white and brown where they tap to the ciggy lighter wiring. tap those to mk2 ciggy lighter wiring and plug it all in. you dont need the yellow wire so can cut it if it makes life easier)

    It seems that the black connector is not the diagnostics jumper block but the vagcom port? Should I still be looking for a diagnostics jumper block?

    Vagcom port wires - grey/white stipe and yellow are not cut and terminate in the connector on the right of the last picture above. Yellow wire is not required but where does the grey/white stripe go?
    Red/white stripe and brown wires to be cut and then they splice to the same wires at the cigarette lighter on the Mk2, correct?

    Immobiliser box - thick black wire to earth somewhere? Thin black wire currently terminates in the green connector block. As above this needs ignition live so should it be cut from the green connector block?
    Where do the grey and grey/white stripe wires go?

    Does the transponder reader need to still be connected and if so does it need the ignition key taped to it permanently?
    Dodgy has an emulator chip for me. With that installed what changes?
     

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