NASP FSI Content....2.2 litre and 9600 rpm? Read on!

On our Club GTI FB group page, we recently had a conversion regarding Supertech valvetrain durability.
In that discussion, Christopher Alamorian spoke about his valve train being similar to the R32 that was being discussed as well as revving his engine to 9600 rpm without failure. 9600rpm? So what engine was this? Well on closer inspection it turned out this was not just a 827 16v lump but an all motor FSI based lump. So I got in contact with him and he sent quite some information on his set up.

Meet the car, a USDM Golf MK3 that was originally to be a R32 drag racer.



This is the engine that was built











The engine spec sheet is:

• AEG 113 8v block bored to 85mm,
• CR 14:1 CP custom piston,
• R and R custom aluminum rods,
• ALH crank cut to 98mm
• BPY cylinder head stock ports,
• Standard size Supertech valves,
• Cat Cams 300+ duration solid lifter cams,
• Catcams lifters and springs.
• Custom race header built by owner.
• Kinsler 60mm Honda B16 VTEC ITBS
• 1000cc injectors,
• Bosch 044 fuel pump.
• FTW red race fuel

Output was tested at 288 whp.


https://www.facebook.com/christopher.alamorian/videos/647527931968338
[video]https://www.facebook.com/christopher.alamorian/videos/647527931968338[/video]

Car achieved 11.1 secs @ 120mph.

Video below.

https://www.facebook.com/christopher.alamorian/videos/680943715293426
[video]https://www.facebook.com/christopher.alamorian/videos/680943715293426[/video]

 

that is awesome. what a motor....that moves the game on for vw nasp afficionados.

 

Chris has now sold the motor off in parts. I've just purchased all the top end - cams, pulleys, solid lifters, springs, titanium caps, head bolts etc off him for the Tatty Golf's FSi motor. It was actually an AEG 8v block, so even better!! Arriving Monday from Florida :-)

 

very good buy tony. thats got a lot of potential. that tops all the kit car motors and even bangs on door of the factory tourers....
staggering stuff - the face of development
so much for 8v.....finally.......

 

Oh I like that.. My dream engine. Congratulations on the purchase Tony.

 

Yeah, will put some info up when I get 5 mins. Been setting up the FSi engine build for a while as time and cash would allow - no factory budget here unfortunately. Came across this engine being 'parted out' as they say in the US a few weeks ago, tracked Chris down and did a deal on the bits I needed, which was all he had let as it happened!

Some of the development woork has been done and tested so too good a chance to miss these parts.

His motor didn't suit my application, he was running too big a bore and stroke for my class, and of course the wrong block. Also 14:1 compression, no good for pump fuel. 13:1 is about max, it'll hold together long enough for sprints and hills on that with decent pump fuel. The bits I got were just right.

I know from HPR that the std valve sizes in an FSI will flow over 300bhp N/A so this will be std valve size, these cams obviously let the motor make 320bhp+ so all good there.

60mm ITB's are too big for what I want, and Chris did say he thought they were too big, probably no bottom end at all I guess. I need midrange power as well as top end.

My plan will probably be 48>50mm max size ITB's

As you know RobT the best cars in mod prod (non turbo) are making around 280bhp, so an ABF based budget motor was not an option. FSi is much easier to achive this, I have no doubt well have at least that.

280bhp N/A power + Gemini sequential box + Tatty Golf =

 

yep that will kick a s s. My valver made 250 and it was not enough with the weight of the ibiza shell. These 280hp pugs are quicker, and 280/300hp mk2 escorts fly. I couldnt be arsed to develop another powerplant from scratch, was going 1.4T, but the high cost would have never been returned, not even nearly. Hence all change time. New challenge.

That package in your mk1 will be competitive

You going to take it to Colin Satchell? It will be a massuve achievement if you can. Almost unbelieveable if I'm honest, but fair play for giving it a crack.

Really looking forward to hearing how you get on.

 

How do you mean almost unbelievable, Rob?

 

The Satchell pug is probably the best fwd hatch to ever go hillclimbing in the UK. Its quite a target. It has beaten Keith Murray's 430hp 80 quat......

 

Met Keith Murray today! Had a good chat about his car and the engine.

 

Nice fella - very knowledgeable and one hell of a driver too.

 

Gotcha now, I thought you meant Tony was taking the engine to Satchells for work! Yeah that 205 is amazing.

 

Any idea on piston solutions other than custom? Could a normal pent roof piston work from ABF?

 

Yeah, the plan is to give Colin and Co a run. To be fair he deserves some competition, he has really built a special car there, there are not many out there at the moment able to step up to the plate and push him enough - me included.

However, even with the 8v on the odd occasion we have been slightly quicker or within a second on some runs. Of course when Colin and Paul then push the pace they have another level they can go to.

That gives me some hope that if I develop a suitable car and invest in some proper Avon A15 tyres that I can at least give them a push with my limited talent :-)

 

Chris ran Custom CP pistons, I've asked him for for a contact.

There are pics of the pistons and head out there, I'll have to dig some out and post. look very trick.

His were very custom, massive cut-outs for valves and spark plug but he was running 14:1, with 13:1 they won't need to be as wild looking.

This is part of the problem with using this head, only the works cars and top race engine manufacturers really use it in N/A format. There is no after-market stuff available, only the brave or foolish go down this route.

It is a great head but not a fast road option, you would only use it for out and out competition engines due to the unavailability of off the shelf parts.

 

^ and most of those formula have a controlled engine in some way, often via the throttle body and rpm.
9600 in a straight line for 11 seconds is a bit different to the requirements for going around corners for a couple of minutes, take note of the fuel as well



As for the original FB question on Superech valves, I use to use them in my old race car (B6T Mazda BMFR chassis, restricted turbo) an they were good performance and value, probably better than Ferrea, which I have also used, friend has then in a Suzuki GTi that runs over 10,000 for about 3 years, so you will not have any issues with that.

Edit: what does NASP mean?
I can guess the NA bit
Spark Petrol???

 

Above the numbers are what they are.... but things need to be seen in context.... By the size of those 1000 cc injectors it makes sense its not running on pump fuel.... probably methanol or ethanol ? So with plenty fuelling to cool things.... detonation is less of an isseu

288 whp and 85 mm bore X 98 mm stroke is 2223 cc or good 11% more volume than a 2.0 L ( that would be 259 whp )

60 mm trottles is indeed OTT....even for drag racing...

Then there is WHP as they state it in the US .... we in Europe meassure also at the wheels and talk about Flywheel HP ....lots of confusing fuss....but thats another discussion.....the numbers lottery.... in the end the stopwatch is all that matters !

FSI S2000 2.0 L engines as being used in Rally/circuit racing make 280-300 PS/ BHP @ around 8000 rpm on a single trottle ( max 64 mm) and a plenum
and this on 102 racefuel... there is certainly scope for nice gains...but its not because trottle bodies are fitted OR the engine get revved another 1500 rpm that a big step in power output is guaranteed... its a system that need to be in balance.... if not you end with less power

 

I well and truly understand that, I am saying even the works gear is a poor comparison because they are constrained by regs, we have had guys here take old Super Tourer engines and "unrestrict" them with revs and they just blow them up, the works motors are optimised for exactly the spec.
The Drag car's power will be about right, weight shifted horsepower tells me he would need to come in at about 850kg, seems reasonable ready to roll. I checked the spec of the fuel before, hence the note, it is proper jungle juice, over 20% oxygenated content with 114 MON 116 RON, compared to FIA max of 102 RON and 3.6% oxygenated content


Americans have a habit of over-sizing throttle bodies, it is proven it will make a smidgen more WOT as there is less pressure drop, but the cost in a whopping great flat spot, not much of an issue in drag if the gearing is right, but it is every where else

 

You saw our Club GTI facebook discussion with Lord Lee Ross? ....I digress.

The purpose of this thread is to archive information gathered from speaking to various people via facebook, generate a thread, and then sharing back on facebook.

"NASP" is term coined by one of our longtime members, Brookster. It means Naturally ASPirated.

You are indeed correct, the FSI based 2.2 port injection engine was used for drag racing only and on race fuel.
I suspect the net sum of components of this "All motor" are not applicable to hillclimbing or trackwork.


Tony B, you maybe already aware, there are no specific off the shelf PFI pistons available for the pentroof FSI or TFSI cylinder head. As a result, Chris would have had to use custom pistons to suit the bore and compression ratio, then a set of custom rods to get the piston height right and suit the diesel crank.

Also even though the AEG code is a crossflow 8v originally, this engine is from the family of 113 engines (which includes the AGU/BAM 20vT), which was introduced in the MK4 Golf Era and continued to MK5 cars.

It gets most tricky if you were to attempt to adapt the head to an original 827 motor.

 

Can you provide a link, I couldn't see it, is it an old post? I found the one that directs back here