OEM MK4 management wiring => Mk1/2/3 harness install FAQ (Now with added dieselness!)

Discussion in 'Engines' started by rubjonny, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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  2. Smithdog84 Forum Member

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    yep. Just realised I’m gonna have to lift the engine to get the brake servo back in though. Numpty.
     
  3. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    you might be alright, I managed to swap the brake servo on my old digifant mk2 without even taking the inlet manifold off. was tight but it did squeeze in :lol:
     
  4. Smithdog84 Forum Member

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    hmmm
    I’ve given up for today. Will try again tomorrow. Just doesn’t seem like enough room to wiggle it in.
     
  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    The 20v is a bit larger round the back so that could be an issue
     
  6. Smithdog84 Forum Member

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    yeah think will just get the engine crane out and get it done. Cheers for the help though mate.
     
  7. Smithdog84 Forum Member

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    sorted this if any one else wants to know how I did it with out removing engine. This was in a mk3 I assume mk2 similar.
    first slacken off back to engine mounting bolts and remove front engine bracket bolt.
    Jack under engine with piece of timber and jack engine.
    Remove front engine bracket then slowly lower engine.
    This gives enough room to wiggle brake booster into to position.
    Then reverse procedure to put back together. took me about 1 hour all round.
    hope this helps some one down the line.
     
  8. Pjuvis New Member

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  9. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    here you go, I've updated the first post with part numbers as well :)

    028919081, 028919081B or 028919081H - 0.25-0.3bar switch
    056919081E or 056919081 - 1.8bar switch
     
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  10. timothycori88 New Member

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    hey rubjohnny not sure if it cover here as its a massive thread but any info on doing this with a ceramic early fuse box?

    cheers, Tim
     
  11. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    start by working out your fusebox pinout using my faq here:
    https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/fusebox-faq.219775/

    since the ceramic fusebox cant really take any load what I would do is keep both the fuel and ecu/coil relays separate from the fusebox, just run the old dash sensor wiring, wiper loom, starter etc as before. use inline fuses for the various power circuits, maybe run the lives from the relays to the battery rather than draw any load through the old main live battery wire and fusebox H terminals. If you made a new chunky battery live you would be ok though.

    There's an ignition live on the G spades you can use to trigger your relays, or you can re-purpose the old coil power wire if it was on electronic ignition with normal wiring rather than points ignition with the purple/white coil resistance wire. if you get yourself a proper pin tool the fusebox round pins can be found online if you want to remake it all fresh :)
     
  12. timothycori88 New Member

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    thanks for the reply.

    ok cool I'm going from a diesel so no coil power wire, so am i right in thinking ALL G spades are for relays and they are all power with the ignition on?
    would i use the H spades for anything? connected to H was starter and glow plugs.

    do you know if the L relay in the fuses box can be used for a fuel pump if it didn't come with one?

    lastly if i relay and fuse ecu/coil and fuel pump all separate to the fuse box will i have to wire anything into it?

    cheers, Tim
     
  13. Pjuvis New Member

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    Hey rub, thanks for the numbers of parts. I starting to do this conversion and I have many question. First sorry for my bad English, I wish you understand me :]] So first, yours tutorial write, that in T14a connector pin 2 and 3 I can delete if I use mk2 cluster (yes, I try use to mk2). 2 and 3 pins go from speed sender on gearbox (I'm using oem 6speed 02m box). Then you write, that t10-orange connector pin 6 (he going from ecu) need connect to my mk2 cluster. So I'm not understand, how ecu see speed, if I delete speed sensor wires (t14a 2 and 3 pins) ? ? ? Sorry again for my bad English. :]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    The G spades are all different accessory feeds, only G/3 is suitable for triggering your 20v relays. H spades are all permanent live, these can be used for the live inputs to your relays but liek I say might want to run the relay lives to battery or beef up the original main live to fusebox from the battery.

    Dont try to use the factory relay socket for the fuel pump, the output pin is too small and they often burn out on the GTI. VW released a relay relocation kit as a recall to solve the problem.

    So you'll want 1 relay to power the ecu and coils, fused with a 15a fuse on the live input, run the ecu permanent live T6/4 to the fuse output also. then another relay for the fuel pump and extra engine power feeds for T6/5, and the 2 feeds for the T14a/5 and 6.

    If its a drive by wire loom then there is usually an ecu/coil power relay 428 in a relay box in the engine bay, you can keep this and re-route the T6 live feed over to the battery live with inline fuse, if you have the right terminals the relay box has 3 or 5 spare fuse holders which are perfect for this.

    They usually have an SAI 100 relay in the box too, normally you delete it but you can re-purpose this as your fuel relay instead. cut the brown/grey trigger wire from the ecu and splice it to the purple/white fuel relay trigger wire instead. cut the blue/yellow fuel pump power wire and wire that to an ignition live feed. the thick red live run off to battery live, and the thick white/red wire off to the SAI pump split off into 2 or 3 fuses for all of the engine electrics. run a wire back to fusebox and put a spade on it, plug your fuel pump power into it
     
  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Pjuvis: Pins 2 and 3 are for the speedometer sender yes, if you were using mk2 clocks with mechanical speedometer drive you dont need them any more. however as you have an 02M gearbox there is no mechanical drive inside, you'll have to keep the sender and so wire up these pins. feed the speed sensor output to a mechanical converter box, here's a couple choices:
    https://www.dakotadigital.com/index...t_id=886/category_id=287/mode=prod/prd886.htm
    http://www.atrol.com/cablex.htm

    the blue/white wire on the orange plug is the speed output signal from the cluster to the ECU. On the MK2 this signal is used for cruise control, aktiv speaker system and some ECU. However the signal is only there on GTI clusters with MFA, or some non-GTI which were specified with one of the above options. But since you're wiring up the sensor on the gearbox you can splice the ECU wire to the gearbox sensor output as the signal is the same :)
     
  16. timothycori88 New Member

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    thanks mate im think im getting my head around it only taken me like 20 hours [:s]

    ive got a AGU loom with DBC ive kept MAF/02/charcole can and deleted reverse and starter there is a 2pin connector with a grn and brn wire, can i delete this?

    so can you clarify if i should have a fuse before the 30 terminal for the ecu and coil (is this t14a/8?)

    T6/4 will just have its own fuse and go straight to H?

    for the fuel pump, maf/02/n80 and T15a/5 and 6 (can these wire be fused together? ) they all got to one spade and go to 87? also these will be fused individually after the relay?

    ill beef up battery wire and take power from H for the relays and trigger both of them from G3

    hopefully you can make sense of whats happening in my mind. ive drawn it down but can't upload a photo.

    cheers, Tim
     
  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    charcoal canister goes to the bin unless you need it to pass emissions in your country, but the UK its not required :) the green/white and brown 2 pin near starter wiring is power steering switch, can bin that as well.

    Get a 4 pin relay such as a 53 for your ecu & coil power. put a 15a fuse on the live wire to the 30 pin and tap the t6/4 wire into this fuse as well. Run pin 87 to the t6/1 and t14a/8 pins. ignition live to 86, earth to 85.

    Fuel relay same deal standard 4 terminal switched relay. Don't fuse the live side instead run 2 fuses from pin 87, 10a for injectors t14a/5 and another 10a for t6/5 maf/carbon canister/lambda and t14a/6 n75 valve. if you're crafty you can re-use the power pin from the carbon canister and run it over to the t14a/6 pin saves you running a separate wire for it. Plus if extra crafty and can de-pin it the pin will swap into the t14a and saves you a splice too. Bit of a pain to get out, need a decent tool and you click the purple secondary lock mech over to release. Then ignition live to pin 86 and ecu purple/white from T6/2 to pin 85.
     
  18. timothycori88 New Member

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    awesome thanks rubjonny pretty much got it now.

    charcoal canister is a must to get engineering in Australia unfortunately, once passed may delete. ( if using that power wire for the T14a/6 tho would it not have to be fused?)

    last few questions, will T6/2 be used as the earth for the relay or piggybacked with a ground?

    will g3 be ok to trigger both relays?

    and finally will i need a 3 sperate relay and fuse for a fuel pump?

    thanks mate you've been a massive help, sorry if they have been stupid questions.
     
  19. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Ok cool keep that then and just add your t14a/6 wire into the same fuse as the t6/5 or splice into the thickest run of wire on that feed. Should still be ok with 10a fuse but can go up to a 15a if need be.

    T6/2 goes straight to relay 85 by itself, the 3cu supplies relay earth to trigger relay you see.

    G3 will be fine for both, it's under no load. Forgot about fuel pump :lol: add a 3rd 10a fuse to the fuel relay and power your pump off it. Or if worried add a 3rd relay for fuel pump and run the live trigger 86 pin to the 87 pin of your fuel relay and earth pin 85
     
  20. timothycori88 New Member

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    ok sweet got it.

    i would still need to run a live wire to pin30 tho right? im just using the other relay as a trigger instead of g3?
     

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