Pierburg carburettor questions

Discussion in 'Engines' started by Trev16v, Oct 26, 2003.

  1. Trev16v

    Trev16v Paid Member Paid Member

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    'lo all,

    I'm trying to solve a cold start problem on my girlfriend's Golf MK2 1.6 CL which has a 2E2 pierburg carburettor. The car insists on sounding like it's firing on two or three cylinders when started and takes a minute or two of nursing the accelerator pedal before it starts behaving.

    I'm well aware that a common problem is the choke unit, and I have also heard that the pulldown unit can be troublesome.

    I have taken the autochoke unit off the side of the carb and noted that the spring is looking intact, and saw that it contracted when I sprayed cold carb cleaner on it. There is about 13 ohms across the heater element so that's okay. I cleaned out the autochoke unit best I could and I am confident that this part is alright.

    Yesterday I got a complete 2E2 carburettor from the scrappie and I just had a play with the pulldown unit on it. I noted that it has two vacuum connections on it A and B, and if I block A with my finger, then the rod sticking out of the pulldown unit isn't able to move. Blocking B doesn't seem to affect it at all. So does it sound like this pulldown unit is working as it should?

    Now with the pulldown unit on my girfriend's car, I find I can blocking A or B doesn't have any effect on the movement of the pulldown unit. Could this mean therefore that it is knackered?

    I am wondering if I can solve the problem now by putting in this spare pulldown unit.

    What is the purpose of the pulldown unit anyway? I see that it's connected to the inlet manifold and also a vacuum tank, and there's also a tube going down to the bottom of the carb. I'm guessing that it forces movement of the flap when you first start the engine, and also maybe it also opens the flap on high load, or something.

    Trev
    Edited by: Trev16v
     
  2. GVK

    GVK Paid Member Paid Member

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    The pulldown unit makes the choke 'shut off', You only need the choke fully shut for starting, the pull down unit controls the choke flap once the engine is running, the choke will eventually be shut off by the heating element, but the pulldown unit controls it in the mean time.

    The engine will run really rich and 'chug' during the initial warm up period if the pulldown diagphragm is split

    We used to replace the pulldown units on lots of Sierras fitted with a similar carb for that fault.

    Edited by: G_V_K
     
  3. Trev16v

    Trev16v Paid Member Paid Member

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    Well the engine really does chug, and although I don't fully understand how the pulldown unit works with those two vacuum connections, it seems suspicious to me that I can push that arm back freely even with my fingers on the two vacuum nozzles. The other one I have won't move if I block nozzle A, but B never seems to have any effect. Does that sound how it should be?

    About a week ago I discovered that the tube going from the check valve to the pulldown was disconnected, so I reconnected that and the car went great, but now this has started. Presumably the pulldown has only just died.

    If someone can explain how the nozzles A and B work then that would be useful.

    GVK, many thanks indeed.
     
  4. GVK

    GVK Paid Member Paid Member

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    The Sierra pulldown units only had 1 vacum connection so were easily tested, one length of vacumn tubing + a very scientific 'suck and hold vacumn with your tongue' test!!

    If it held vacumn it was ok :thumbup: , but if it didn't - it was fecked :thumbd:
     
  5. Admin Guest

    Take the carb off, take a run, then throw it to **** and get a webber
     
  6. Trev16v

    Trev16v Paid Member Paid Member

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    Yeah, I took the pulldown unit off, and replaced it with the one from the 2E2 I got from the scrapyard yesterday.

    The one I took out is definitely dead! Doesn't suck at all from either nozzle, unlike the one I put. But the 'new' one only seems to work on one nozzle and the other nozzle doesn't seem to do nowt, so I dunno if it is 100%, but the diaphragm is definitely good.

    Well, I'm well chuffed now. Just have to see what it is like tomorrow morning after a cold night. Thanks for the help.

    Dave:

    Yeah I know that's the general feeling towards Pierburg carbs, but to be honest I think it's good to get to know and understand them a bit.

    The car is an F reg white five-door 1.6 CL with dings and scrapes all over it. It's her first car that she'll probably want to change after a year. It cost 375 quid.

    The choice is either paying several hundred quid for a Webber carb on a car that we really don't want to spend money on, or alternatively I take the time to try to solve the problem with the existing carb, and learn something in the process, and get satisfaction from doing so.

    Another thing is that there are so many 2E2's sitting around in scrapyards that it's easy to pick up spare bits.
     
  7. Mikey Forum Member

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    Hi Trev

    I've got some info I've gathered on troubleshooting the 2e2 carbs - i could email it to you if you want (its about 2mb)

    Give me your email address & I'll send it on

    Mike
     
  8. Trev16v

    Trev16v Paid Member Paid Member

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    Hi Mike,

    That's kind of you and I'd be very much interested in seeing the info you have. Sent you a PM with my email addy.

    Thanks, Trev
     
  9. Admin Guest

    fair enough
     
  10. Trev16v

    Trev16v Paid Member Paid Member

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    Oh I do certainly agree about having the Weber conversion though. My 1.8 Driver had already been converted with one when I bought it.
     
  11. Admin Guest

    cool, i have just had so many probs with the pierburg carb! it's best not to splash out on a webber for your situation though, quite right.
     
  12. Trev16v

    Trev16v Paid Member Paid Member

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    What problems have you been having with yours, Dave?
     
  13. essex_lad Forum Member

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    Mikey,

    You couldn't Email that information too, having a spot of bother with a friend's Polo fitted with a 2E2 Pierburg.

    Cheers.
     
  14. Admin Guest

    Everything mate, lol. especially the brilliant auto choke! my car kept sticking at 3000rpm! then would sometimes jump to 4000rpm and back! no-one could get it to idle right ethier it always stayed at 1200rpm. the engine also kept running even after i switched the car off, and the only way to stop the car would be to stall the thing! the mixture also went a bit mad all the time. so i hate those carbs to death lol [:D]
     
  15. drew Forum Member

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    I spent a year mucking about with the pierburg before I relented and fitted a weber. It was a stunning transformation, I couldn't believe how much better the car was. 10+ bhp, better fuel economy and a 1.8 engine that now felt like a 1.8 engine. Don't waste time messing about with the things, they are way overengineered for the task they perform. The weber transforms the 1.8 carb engine. Just do it. (tm!)

    Cheers,

    Drew.
     
  16. Crispy 8V CGTI Committee - Club Secretary Admin

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    so the question everyone else is asking-

    what known cars have weber with the same mounting holes, we all know that it will need setting up correctly :thumbup:

    I've been on the look out, the ones i have found have been all been incorrect
     
  17. Jetta Forum Junkie

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    If I can find my carb book I'll cross reference the weber replacemnt cabs th cars you can take them off, though weber kits have adapter plates to alter the connect the carb to the vw rubber block.

    Also have you tried changing the rubber mounting block, when mine went on the golf, it ran that bad the AA thought the cylinder head gasket had gone!
     
  18. farquare Forum Member

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    i think the only other cars they were used on were old land rover disco's but i may be wrong.
     
  19. Jetta Forum Junkie

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    I think you mean Defender 90/110/130

    VW Pierburg Application List

    Volkswagen

    VehicleEngine Code Year OEM Carburettor Weber

    Volkswagen Caddy 1.6 EW 83-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL

    Volkswagen Golf 1.05 GN 84-85 Pierburg (Solex) 31 PIC-7 34 ICH
    Volkswagen Golf 1.05 HZ 85-91 Pierburg 32 1B3 32 TL
    Volkswagen Golf 1.05 HZ 85-91 Weber 32 TLA 32 TL
    Volkswagen Golf & Van 1.1 GG 81-83 Pierburg (Solex) 31 PIC-7 34 ICH
    Volkswagen Golf 1.1 Formel E GG8 81-83 Pierburg (Solex) 31 PIC-7 34 ICH
    Volkswagen Golf & Van 1.3 HK/MH/2G 83-91 Pierburg 28/30 2E3 32 DMTR
    Volkswagen Golf 1.5 JB 81-84 Pierburg 36 1B3 36 TLP
    Volkswagen Golf 1.6 EW/EZ 83-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Volkswagen Golf 1.6 Cat. RF 86-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Volkswagen Golf Cabrio 1.8 EXZ 83-91 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Volkswagen Golf & Synchro 1.8 GU 84-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Volkswagen Golf 1.8 Cat. RH 86-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL

    Jetta 1.05 HZ 85-91 Weber 32 TLA 32 TL
    Jetta 1.1 Formel E GG8 81-83 Pierburg (Solex) 31 PIC-7 34 ICH
    Jetta 1.3 HK/MH/2G 83-91 Pierburg 28/30 2E3 32 DMTR
    Jetta 1.5 JB 81-84 Pierburg 36 1B3 36 TLP
    Jetta 1.6 FR 79-83Pierburg 34/34 2B5 34 DAT
    Jetta 1.6 EW/EZ 83-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Jetta 1.6 Cat. RF 86-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Jetta & Synchro 1.8 GU 84-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Jetta 1.8 Cat. 1.8 Cat. RH 86-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL

    LT 2.0 CH 80-82 Pierburg 36 1B1 36 TLP
    LT 2.4 DL 83-Oct86 Pierburg 34/34 2B6 34 DAT
    LT 2.4 DL Oct86-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E3 32 DMTR

    Passat 1.3 FY 81-83 Pierburg 36 1B1 36 TLP
    Passat 1.6 YP 81-82 Zenith 34/34 2B5 34 DAT
    Passat 1.6 WV 81-83 Pierburg 36 1B3 32/34 36 TLP
    Passat 1.6 DT 83-88 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Passat 1.8 DS 83-88 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Passat 1.9 WN 81-83 Zenith 34/34 2B5 34 DAT

    Polo 1.05 GL 81-85 Pierburg (Solex) 31 PIC-7 34 ICH
    Polo & Van HZ 85-90 Weber 32 TLA 32 TL
    Polo & Van HZ 85-90 Pierburg 32 1B3 32 TL
    Polo & Van Cat. HZ 89-90 Pierburg 32 1B3 32 TL
    Polo 1.1 HB 81-84 Pierburg (Solex) 31 PIC-7 34 ICH
    Polo 1.1 HB8 Formel E 82-84 Pierburg (Solex) 31 PIC-7 34 ICH
    Polo 1.3 HK/MH/2G 83-90 Pierburg 24/28 2E3 32 DMTR

    Santana 1.6 YP 81-82 Pierburg 34/34 2B5 34 DAT
    Santana 1.9 WN 81-83 Pierburg 34/34 2B5 34 DAT

    Scirocco 1.5 JB 81-84 Pierburg 36 1B3 36 TLP
    Scirocco 1.6 FR 79-83 Pierburg 34/34 2B5 34 DAT
    Scirocco 1.6 EW 83-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL
    Scirocco 1.8 EXZ 83-92 Pierburg 28/30 2E2 32/34 DMTL

    Transporter 1.9DG 82-87 Pierburg 28/30 2E3 32 DMTR
    Caravelle 1.9 DG 82-87 Pierburg 28/30 2E3 32 DMTR

    Other Vehicles with these carbs:

    34 DAT Fiat Chroma 1.6 1585cc 86-90,Fiat Chroma 2000 1995cc 86-91, Lancia Delta & Prisma 1500 1498cc 80-85, Lancia Delta 1600 GT, 4585cc 80-85 Lancia Prisma 1600 1585cc 86-90, Lancia Beta 1600 1585cc 82-84, Lanci Trevi 1600 1585cc 81-84, Lancia Trevi 2000 1995cc 81-84.

    32/34 DMTL Land Rover 90,110 2286cc/2495cc 83-86/85-90

    32 DMTR No other applications listed

    34 ICH No other applications listed

    32 TL Opel Corsa 1.2 87-91, Opel Kadett 1.2 83-84, Vauxhall Nova 1.0 83-87, Vauxhall Nova/Opel Corsa 1.0 88-91, Vauxhall Nova 1.2 85-87 Vauxhall Nova 1.2 87-91, Vauxhall Astra 1.2 84-91.

    36 TLP Citroen BX16RE 1580cc 87-89, Peugeot 305 & Van 1580cc 85-91, Peugeot 309 1.6 1580cc 86-8

    Data Obtained from Haynes Automotive Carburator Manual and http://www.webcon.co.uk
     

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