Rewiring Hazard warning switch from column mounted to remote ?

Discussion in 'Electrical' started by Nige, Aug 7, 2015.

  1. Nige

    Nige Paid Member Paid Member

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    My indicator stalk is the type with the hazard warning light switch built in, on top of the steering column

    Like this one (I couldn`t find a pic of mine)
    [​IMG]

    Anyway, my indicator stalk broke the other day, so I need another, but for some time i`ve been looking at repositioning the hazard warning light switch and this seemed like a good opportunity.

    When I`m on track and come across waved yellows, especially at the Nurburgring, it`s common practice to flick on the hazard warning lights to warn other drivers. However, when I`m in the car with the harness tightened, reaching round the wheel whilst still driving has always been a bit of a pain. It`s a bit of a stretch and not a comfortable angle.

    What I want to do is reposition the switch to a more accessible location.

    What wiring changes are required to reposition it to a different location and do I need a specific type of switch or can a generic hazard switch be used and integrated into the MK2 wiring ?
     
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    If you want to move the switch from the column for the wiring side have a look in my sig golf91.pdf. it shows 90spec wiring for the standard CE1 typr hazard switch on the dash, which is used for cars with a tilt column.

    you will need a hazard type switch for this one, but generic units should do you just fine :thumbup:

    If you keep the original hazard switch and wanted a separate hazard switch that is within easy reach and can just be flipped when you're driving on the track, a standard toggle switch could be used. its just a case of it wont work with the ignition off as the hazard switch has 2 functions. it has an internal switch which switches the relay input power between a live and ignition live feed (hazard on, hazard off) and another switch that switches the power output from the relay down the indicator wires when switch is on
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  3. Sirguydo

    Sirguydo Fastest milkman in the West Paid Member

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    I've got a switch you can have :thumbup:
     
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  4. Nige

    Nige Paid Member Paid Member

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    That sounds like the easiest / best solution :thumbup:
     
  5. Nige

    Nige Paid Member Paid Member

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    Is that a stalk with hazard switch, or standalone hazard switch ?

    After Rubjonny`s comment, I`ll replace the stalk with the same, one with integral hazard switch, but wire up a secondary on/off switch for track use in the circuit.
     
  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    righto with that one you want a switch which has 2 separate outputs, and 1 or 2 inputs. put your L and R indicator wires to each of the outputs (need to be separate otherwise all the indicators will come on when you flick the indicator stalk!) on the input side(s) run a tap into the black/white/green wire to pin 2/49a. job she is jobbed :thumbup:
     
  7. Sirguydo

    Sirguydo Fastest milkman in the West Paid Member

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    Dr don't know but I've probably got both
    There's no column on the H reg but there is on the J reg I have to check before you come over to fleece me again lol
     
  8. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    It would be easier if the diagram is posted and the connection points explained. Therefore I have done just that in the hope to simplify.

    Turn Signal and Hazard Later G2 or 3.png

    In the diagram above, relay J2 is the hazard and turn signal relay.

    During normal running, this relay is supplied via ignition supply KL15 and if the turn signal switch E19 is connected to a bulb circuit load, the relay electronics will begin to output on H2/8 or U2/6. Bulb load determines flash rate.

    If the hazard switch is activated (E2) the supply to the relay J2 is from the switched live (KL30) and both bulb channels, as highlighted will be connected.

    You will need a switch to remotely power up the relay J2 and have the switch also route the output of the relay ( H2/8 or U2/6) to the two bulb channels found on the 7 pin connector.
     
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  9. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the extra switch woudl be required if you wanted the remote switch to also work with the ignition off yes, but in the situation Nige described driving on track with a yellow flag this wouldn't be required as the ignition would be on :)
     
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  10. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    That is a diagram which was illustrated and edited as a reference for other readers not proficient with the Central Electric speak. In addition an explanation is given to describe how the system works in production.

    With the knowledge of how it works, if a bit of common sense is applied, you can tap into the circuit and neatly and carry out an aftermarket modification as required.

    I did say "You will need a switch to remotely power up the relay J2 and have the switch also route the output of the relay ( H2/8 or U2/6) to the two bulb channels found on the 7 pin connector."

    The idea here is to replace the broken indicator stalk and ensure it (E3/E19) works as per production intent, then mount an alternative switch for hazard activation where the driver feels is more convenient to him using the above diagram.

    I have been out with Nige at the ring before and have an idea what he is on about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
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  11. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yarp I understand, just mentioned it so Nige was clear on it is all :thumbup:
     
  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Ok, after some good old MSPaint, here is how you make a hazard switch bypass in a 90spec MK2, or any CE2 fusebox motor:
    [​IMG]

    The switch on the left is optional, if you don't mind only having the hazards work when the ignition is on then you don't need it. the switch on the right needs to have 2 separate outputs, otherwise indicating left and right would bring on all the lights. it doesn't have to have 2 separate inputs though :)

    Note the 1 pole input to 2 switched output poles type switch on the left is required, if you just put a switched permanent live on the yellow/black as well as an ignition live you would find your ignition rail is powered up by your hazard bypass switch :lol: Either this, or a diode could be put on the ignition wire to prevent a permanent live feed back feeding the ignition live rail :thumbup:

    There are dedicated hazard switches on the market which have all of the above combined for an easy life :)


    edit: oh and just in case its not clear, the red/yellow wire I mention is what goes to pin 30 on the stalk to power up the 'KL30 battery live' rail in the hazard switch/stalk assembly as labelled in Toyotec's original diagram. J/4 being plug J on the fusebox, pin 4 :thumbup:

    This thread will help with the fusebox side of things:
    http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?219775
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
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  13. Nige

    Nige Paid Member Paid Member

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    You see that`s the thing. You think the diagram makes it clear, but to me, I`m not a great deal wiser lol

    I see what you are saying with J2 and E3 etc, I can see them, but I don`t work with vehicle electric wiring diagrams and the format isn`t immediately clear to me. At work, I deal with logic circuits, multiple trip systems with interlocks and relay latching that are all interconnected, to me those are instantly readable yet for someone outside the industry, they aren`t clear at all. I`ve been doing it almost 30 years, but diagrams like the one you showed aren`t.

    Not your fault, you`ve shown the diagram and even labelled it, but the format and understanding it isn`t obvious to me. :thumbup:

    It shows E3, K6, E2 and E19 all in one rectangular grey box, but they are different switches aren`t they ?


    /RJ was posting at the same time as me, I hadn`t seen that when I wrote / posted the above/
     
  14. Nige

    Nige Paid Member Paid Member

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    Perfect.

    I only need it when driving. If I needed to have the hazards on when parked up, I`d just use the column mounted switch. ALL I need is a simple DPST switch wired as you`ve shown and that placing within easy reach while harnessed in the car. Spot on.

    Oh, are the wires I need to splice in the steering column wiring, or near the fusebox ?


    Thanks Eddie & RJ for their help :clap:
     
  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    this one may help to understand eddies piccy:
    http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?173722

    the diagram above shows the complete indicator stalk and hazard switch assembly, all the wires you need are from this to the fusebox easy peasy. you could of course tap into the front or rear indicator wires this would work just as well, but since the black/white/green wire you need is only on the stalk it makes sense to keep it all on the stalk wiring. the added advantage of that is since the stalk wiring comes out separately you can easily take it out for your work, then pop back in when done :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
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  16. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Exactly my point for putting up the factory diagram. If you do not understand the circuit schematic diagram then it would be impossible to understand an explanation how to connect KL30/KL15 to 'J2' then out to 2/49a and so on. That is why I put it up.
    I also work with logic diagrams, similar to what will be in the relay J2 or for OEM PCM calibration philosophy.
    This is technician's stuff though and those are official VW diagrams, the format has been like that since I was into Beetles!


    The stalk that you wish to replace contains the hazard switch (E3), turn indicator (E2), park indicator (E19) and the hazard switch bulb (K3). I can break it down to simply 'tap off here and connect to here' and it will work if needs be.
     
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