Hy guys, I wonder there are few people for building a N/a 3.2l 24v. I never seen or eared a building of a 100bhp/L's engine. What is the most vr6 24v you ever seen ?! I'm interested by those informations because i want to build one.
Engines approaching 100bhp/litre, tend to be race engines with a narrow range of usuable torque at the top end, to suit the short gearing and spacing, usually associated with a race car.
approaching 100hp/liter also means your engine ( vw 3.2l 24v) couldn't used like daily (M3 E46,civic EP3)….i'm desappointed because i read some thread about that on VW VORTEX and R32oc: some people americans and English guys modded seriously there R32 to achieve 265whp, with trains losses. It is possible English guy i refered could be here on GTI forum; can give you his name later. trying to achieve my goal, i considered ITB conversion like ultime solution for this. I bought BMW M3 e46 complete ITB system, it is a bite more longer than R32's variable intake manifold, i'm actually searching the better solution to make the intake manifold for using S54 BMW ITB on R32's engine. it could be a little bit more difficult but total cost will be less expensive than a plug & play ITB unit .this adaptation will need some modifications ( radiator, harness) but i'm studying it actually. if you have a solution for the intake manifold adaptation, i will listen
You have to understand the limitations on cylinder filling and thus torque, to determine what on stock hardware needs replacing to enhance performance. Just targeting peak bhp to achieve some arbitrary bhp/l goal with projecting what RPM that will occur at, will miss important development steps and cause you to invest in mismatched components.
absolutely right Mister…. Sorry, i missed to says i tried some mods/ différents intake and exhaust, Variable intake lenght on/off,différents cams, the goal is to increase significantly bhp without get out oem RPM tolerance <7300 RPM, modifying vvt range ( cnc work) to increase torque, exhaust/intake, CAI, cams,SS exhaust manifold,porting for increasing Air mass 190g/s to 198g/s, tune process...loosing torque is absolutely forbbiden!!! This protocol should be used by all mk4/mk5 owner without lightening Something. there is a lot of thing had been done & tried. actually 290bhp & 35.7 Nm without fire advance modification cause of issues on spark plug ( not the good ones),choosed injectors were a little bit limited for those mods with E85, their flow capacity need to be increased to reduce duty cycle 102% to 87%, i Don't wanna use 'big injectors', i just want the needed +20%. next step ==> after covid 19 lol a complete tune VVT & VARIABLE INTAKE, gazoline & ignition About stock hardware, next dyno results could help us , let's try to see what & how order is needed to enhance performance, emissions laws, torque limitations, scanvenging duration, O2 sensors pré & post,we have a lot to do i know. Some recommandations will be usefull
Im not into these VR engines... but as its a 4V / cyl engine and and combustion chambers and valves who are pretty much like the FSI / TFSI 2.0 L engines... but on the VR6 24V engines the ports have some odd shape ....but i believe a streetable 90 - 100 hp/L must be possible... Inlet trumpet belmouth to valve, reckon ca 350- 380 mm as start basis ...with longer and shorter trumpets to get equal lenght inlets
Let'me see if i have necessary place for 350/380mm for inlet trumpets, i'll tell that later. Solution which was envisaged was variable intake lenght trumpet as new YAMAHA R1 engine…..a friend, fan of bike, should bring me one model to see how it really work it operate with drive by wire ... V6 24V cams are equipped of intake lenght compensation Catcams answer about that,seems we'll be abble to test the 2 solutions : equals and différents trumpets lenghts ( my custom cams version Don't have lenght compensation) The price for a set of cams is £764.15+ Vat The specs for the profiles are: left and right cylinders have different cam durations, I suppose to compensate for the different port lengths. In fact, that surprises me in 2 ways: - they could easily have compensated the port length difference in the intake / exhaust runners - the long ports get the shorter profiles and the shorter ports get the longer profiles (I would rather try the opposite first, but anyway) So: - the cylinders on the left (= intake side) have the short intake ports with the longer duration profiles - the cylinders on the left (= intake side) have the long exhaust ports with the shorter duration profiles - the cylinders on the right (= exhaust side) have the short exhaust ports with the longer duration profiles - the cylinders on the right (= exhaust side) have the long intake ports with the shorter duration profiles The std valve data are (1mm): - left intake: 210°/9.9mm - left exhaust: 205°/9.9mm - right intake: 205°/9.9mm - right exhaust: 210°/9.9mm The Schrick valve data are (1mm): - left intake: 220°/11.0mm - left exhaust: 214°/11.0mm - right intake: 214°/11.0mm - right exhaust: 220°/11.0mm I have created following profile combinations: stage1 (std spring setup): - left intake: 218°/11.0mm - left exhaust: 214°/11.0mm - right intake: 214°/11.0mm - right exhaust: 218°/11.0mm - intake: 0.6mm extra opening at TDC - exhaust: 0.6mm extra opening at TDC stage2 (std spring setup): - left intake: 226°/11.0mm - left exhaust: 218°/11.0mm - right intake: 222°/11.0mm - right exhaust: 222°/11.0mm - intake: 1.1mm extra opening at TDC - exhaust: 0.8mm extra opening at TDC stage3 (custom spring setup, available): - left intake: 234°/12.0mm - left exhaust: 222°/11.5mm - right intake: 230°/12.0mm - right exhaust: 226°/11.5mm - intake: 1.8mm extra opening at TDC - exhaust: 1.2mm extra opening at TDC Unfortunately, I don't have timing data , and no piston clearance data (that was actually the reason we did not release the cams). I guess the stage1 should be no problem at all regarding the pistons, the stage 2 could get tricky. The same is true for their behavior on the std / reprogrammed ECU. Regards Matt Catcams N.V. UK Sales & Technical Representative www.catcams.co.uk toyotec, without getting me secrets or years développements results , coul you tell me what effect can i see on engine if i deactivate posts cata O2 sensors? will i see a signifiant difference in perfeormance & behaviour? For the moment, they're are mounted but not used in sofware. thanks for your time
What i meant is : there are 2 rows of cylinders... so there are short ports and longer ports , this means the longer ports need shorter trumpets to end up with equal lenght runners... Maybe with equal lenght trumpets, it might have its benefits as each tune for another rpm... but thats something to test At first keep it simple and go fix trumpets... in a later stage you can go into the complexity of variable inlet lenght ...
To be fair, what you copying and pasting on a forum as this one is already known. For the ITBs there are solutions that are off the shelf. The camshaft selection is a bit complex and the right selection is based not just on a peak target but a range of operating considerations. So far I am struggling with what you really want to achieve as I really have no idea of what you expectations of a fast 3.2 engine is like. 290 bhp or 357 Nm on paper does not mean a lot to me, unless it can be felt. I would suggest, you still need to understand how power is achieved in an engine via cylinder filling, BMEP and rpm, which allows you to choose components suited to the expectation. Often you might have to spend to get the right components also. You cannot just bodge it. It takes time and knowledge to get it right. If you car is a MK2 Golf, that brings some challenges for packaging. Here is Vento Gareth's Vento 3.2 ITB to give you an idea of how the trumpets are stagged on a VR6 24v. Pascal77uk owns a Frazero MK3 Vr6 12v and the throttle adopt the same principle. You will need a standalone for ITBs on a VR6. So the stock ME7.1.1. will have to be binned.
I showed you catcams for their response about cams lenght compensation. This answer come there is some year. I'm not a mechanical engeneer just a climatic one but ==> cams selection is not a problem because i know what is important in their selection and what i Don't know my friend which is catcams seller & you can help me on it ,but at this point my cams isn't the restrictive point on this engine. Many guys, in the past, did heads / manifold,/exhaust flowing test and showed what can be limiting.as you said later, you're not in vr6 engine but me i'm in. Seems you need to see why i want a fast 3.2l 24v vr and ask me to go back in paper seeing how engine power is made, i Don't want to be sarchastic or rude :even my knowledge isn't at your point, but give me a minimum of credit, i could understand your time is precious and you can't invest you in all demand :but please Don't be like my old professor which said no one couldn't do Nothing in his life. like i'm in test and approximative tune for the moment i will continue like that concerning rights components you're right but you couldn't tell me s54 itb couldn't be fine for our vr6 24v cause of cylinder volum,air Density & speed (maybe i Don't know what does it mean ) let me find some results. last point, you Don't give me an answer about post cata tuning or desactivated in ME7.1's software ==> i want to understand their importance in performance research ( here you could be sure: i Don't know Nothing about that)? Promised, i leave you quiet after that kind regards
