Timing 8v TSR 2.0 - No start saga - Head removed - *FIXED*

Back together...now won't start..

Righto just to update,

It's back together now, dizzy wouldn't go back in because of the old rubber seal so new one of those and it went straight in.

Now it wont start, the first attempt at starting resulted in a very loud backfire that only happened on the first turn and hasn't come back since then but it just doesn't want to start. The only tiny bit of life while turning over is when you put your foot on the throttle but this is varied and still far from firing.

Of course now I have the problem that I dont know if it's something I have done with the timing or if what was wrong before has now given up fully..

Got a spark on all 4 HT leads and the spark plugs are new, I dont think I would call the spark massively strong but I dont know how it should be and the surface I was using might not have been conducting too well.

Cam and crank are at the markers, and the dizzy is pointing at the notch which is where HT#1 is.
Tried advancing and retarding the dizzy, no difference.
Backed the air screw out 1 full turn.
Tried starting with the blue temp sensor unplugged, as well as the knock sensor.
Checked earths and the only one that isn't connected is the one that goes from the bonnet to the wing but this has been like this since I have owned it (I have had the battery disconnected since I started working on it as well).

Smells like fuel after turning over so spark and fuel are ok..

Pretty damn sure the HT leads are the right way around, 1,3,4,2 with the dizzy rotating clockwise.

So yeah rather stuck

 

Still no luck

Starting to remember why I stopped working on cars

Yesterday I took all the earths off and cleaned them properly, also took off the old knackered contacts that go to the coil and replaced those with new.

Put the old plugs in and checked for a spark, nice strong bright white spark now but still wouldn't start. It did try and start a couple of times but this was while the dizzy was really advanced (I think it was advanced, as my mate was turning the dizzy while I was cranking).

Surely it should start though with everything at factory settings (rotor arm pointing at #1 and the notch?

My knock sensor is well tired, splits in the cable and the sensor itself is rough but can this stop the car from starting? Car ran ok with the sensor like this but would it make a difference that it's now timed properly as it was two teeth out on the cam before and I think the dizzy was advanced to compensate. (Unplugging the knock sensor doesn't make a difference.)

I also cleaned the ISV out with petrol, if the ISV was stuck wide open or shut would this stop it from starting?

I know this is a common question overall but I swear I have read every single '8v wont start' thread on the net and I'm no wiser really.
Anyone in the Derby/Notts area want to earn some cash?

 

i thought the dizzy went anti-clockwise?

 

Haynes says anti for the 1.0/1.3 and clockwise for 1.8, rotor arm turns clockwise on mine for sure.

 

might have to put cam back two teeth.
i had 1.9 tsr and half the marks seemed out . but did run.

 

I've just thought what with the car starting to play up before I did the timing (judder/lack power) maybe the Blue temp sensor has died on me or maybe the wiring even. The sensor is new from VW about a year ago so I'd have thought it should be ok but maybe the wiring has broken somewhere.

danTbone - Yeah the car ran okay but the guy I got it off actually said it's not been right since it had a new cam belt. I'll try putting the cam back two teeth tomorrow if I don't get anywhere, the lobes looked bang on at the standard mark though.

 

you totally sure you got piston #1 at TDC?, might be a good idea to do the indicator in the plug hole trick just to make sure, place long screw driver in the plug hole and rock the crank backwards and forwards to comfirm you have TDC and with that confirmed double check the cam and then the dizzy.

 

Before I started today I got everything at their markers and then checked to make sure piston #1 was at the top and it was. Seems exact with the mark through the gearbox inspection hole.

Ya know the more I think about how sure I am the timing is right and I have fuel and spark the more I think it wont start because of whatever was about to give up before I started work on it has now given up. My experience is that the Blue temp sensor can stop a car from starting and cause it to lose all power pretty much when it's fudged which is how it was the last time I drove it.

 

well if you have checked it all lines up mechanically then it must be some kind of electrical fault, as you have the timing right you have spark and you have fuel, so it must be something that is stopping the engine fireing. hall sensor on dizzy or blue temp sensor or a an ecu issue(earth to ecu?)

 

That's what I'm thinking mate, I have a voltmeter now so I'll check the hall sender tomorrow and blue temp wiring. Not sure which is the ecu earth to be honest but I cleaned up the one from the neg terminal on the battery to the gearbox, and then I have 3 on the rocker cover one of which goes to the coil they're all clean and sanded back to clean metal now.

 

ecu is under the rain tray in the scuttle attached to a metal sheild make sure it's earth is good and clean they are stupidly easy to blow up. other than that yeah just start testing things.

 

The ISV makes a click noise I'm told when the ign is turned on, I haven't had it plugged in for about a year as I thought it was faulty but decided to clean it out while everything was off.

I'll have a read up on how to test the AFM now, definitely not my strong point electrics though.

Also with the Blue sensor thing, the last time the car broke down I remember I bought a cheap one from GSF to test it and I really cant remember if I put the proper VW one back in... the one that's in now is a deep blue colour and the spare I have is a lot lighter in colour and I have a feeling the one in the boot might be the VW one so I will swap them over first.

Cheers for your help so far everyone.

 

The only markings on my spare one are 6U0 919 501B which doesn't look to be what the VW PN is for them?

If I google that number it brings up a 4 pin black coolant sensor, but this one of mine is indeed a blue two pin one.

 

Well no progress today, infact it sounded more dead today then it did yesterday

First thing I did was swap the blue sensor with my spare, I had put the VW one back in (much to my disappointment) so that didn't make any difference.

Popped the lid on the afm and the arm was moving while cranking which seems to indicate it works, I even took the airbox and afm out and tried to start it without it as this is how the RAC managed to get it going once before although he was spraying easy start into the inlet pipe as well but I haven't got any.

The most I could get today was some slight poppin' through the exhaust on cranking and one back fire other than that it wouldn't event try. Tried advancing the dizzy varying amounts to and didn't seem to have any difference on it other than slower cranking when I tried retarding it.

I checked terminal 2 and 4 on the TCI unit plug on top of the ECU and as Haynes says should have battery voltage or just under and mine was giving 12.5v which is about what the battery is giving out on the terminals. Still following the Haynes it said to "pull the plug from the hall sender and connect a voltmeter across the low tension terminals on the coil" I couldn't work out which are the low tension terminals from the Haynes illustration and it fails to mention which terminals are the low tension ones so that's as far as I got with that.

I'm thinking now I might just take a gamble on buying a new coil, it kind of makes sense what with how the car felt the last time I drove it. It idle'd fine it was just under load that it wouldn't do anything. I found a thread earlier with a guy having very similar problems and it turned out to be the coil even though he had a good spark when he tested it. It's the original coil by the looks of it, looks to be some rust under the plastic cover so might even be rusty inside for all I know.

The other day when I was checking it over to check for spark I was sure that it made a crackle sound and also seemed like it sparked once more after cranking had stopped..

This is the thread I'm referring to LINK same story as mine other than mine didn't die while driving although I dare say it would have if I had been further away from home.

 

ah yeah of course it is well with all the airbox/afm off there isn't even a try at starting so doesn't seem to be the problem as I have had the car running before without the airbox/afm and I was surprised how well it actually ran (idled).

Fook it I'm going to take a gamble on the coil, I'll most likely be back in a few days to say it wasn't the coil