16v gearbox seals (leaky 'box!) - now with slippy clutch!

I wonder if I might be confused about which bolts are which and be using the wrong names for them?

The ones I meant were the six larger bolts that hold the centre of the pressure plate to the crank - are those ok to use again or not? Last time I got new ones in with the clutch kit but I'm hoping to clean up and re-use my existing clutch this time you see.

I think Broke must mean the smaller ones (that there are nine of?) that hold the flywheel to the clutch assembly as they only tighten to 15lbsft whereas the centre ones I mean are very tight, like 70lbsft or something if I remember from last time?

I called the VW dealer to order some (asked for pressure plate bolts for Mk2 Golf), the six centre ones I was after really though, and the parts guy called me back to say he'd ordered nine of them in for Saturday for me...? I get the impression he must mean the small ones too? Confused?!?

Should I renew both sets of bolts then to be on the safe side, and if so, what should I ask the parts guy for to get the six larger ones? Are they flywheel bolts, pressure plate bolts, crank to clutch bolts or something?

 

I'd definatly replace all of the bolts, unless you like taking the gearbox off.

Parts to ask for are:

N 100 134 01 x9 12 point head bolts.

N 902 061 03 x6 Hex head bolts.

 

Brilliant, thanks for that, just what I needed to know!
I'll call the parts man back tomorrow and make sure to get them all ordered ready.

 

No, do not use those again.

Yes, I'm speaking about these...

Most cars have the flywheel bolting to the engine crank, ours do not. This means the names are more likely to be confused. If they secure the pressure plate, I call them pressure plate bolts, and if they secure the flywheel, I call them flywheel bolts.

The 9 small flywheel bolts are OK to use again if you want, the 6 large pressure plate bolts are stretch bolts and shouldn't be used again.

They're not expensive, so just renew both sets

The picture was an old picture I used when fighting with some guy on the Vortex about them being stretch bolts at 15 ft-lbs. Most clutch install kits sold here for about $50 include both sets of bolts, the clutch centering tool, TO bearing, green end cap, seals, and so on.

Broke

 

Cheers Broke, that clears it up, you seem to know a lot more about this stuff than my local VW dealer parts guy... no suprise there!

Called the dealer and they have tons of the larger bolts in stock already, so just waiting for the order of the smaller ones to come in now and I should be ready to get the 'box off, fingers crossed...

 

whats the story with the steel flange/gasket that mates the gbox to the block?

i ordered what i thought was a complete one peice unit - what i got was half of it - is the lower half and rearward facing quarter still available??? i assume they split it due to damge when droppin out engines - the newer design looks like the lower part is detachable prior to dropping the engine.... to prevent damage...

is the lower part obsolete????

 

What engine /box??

 

16v 1.8

 

part no's listed as:

068 103 621E Upper
Also use:
068 103 648D
068 103 645M

068 103 648D Lower

 

Got the 'box out today, what fun that was... not!

Anyway, as expected the inside of the clutch housing is covered in oil so that looks like why it was slipping. Not took the clutch and flywheel apart yet to inspect, that's tomorrows job.

When I removed all the bolts in the passenger side inner CV to release the driveshaft from the 'box all the gearbox oil promptly dropped out all over my drive, not too handy. It looks like the plastic or rubber cap thingy that's supposed to be in the centre of the coupling on the gearbox side has gone missing hence the oil leak!

Luckily I'm putting back a different 'box and this one definitely seems to have all it's fittings intact, plus I've changed the input and pushrod seals and bush - fingers crossed

One other thing, I got the new bolts as discussed from the dealer today, 10 small ones and 6 big ones... 17.50! Seems a bit steep for bolts, I suppose it'll be worth it if it stops the flywheel coming adrift at 7k rpm one day...

Wish me luck putting it back together (plus lightened flywheel) tomorrow...

 

You can clean an oily clutch very effectively....... in fact the one in my valver has had the same treatment due to a burst box!
Just put a couple of inches of petrol in a biscuit tin/bucket/whatever, add some diesel for a longer burn. Slosh it about a bit, give it a few minutes to soak in. Then set it on fire. Once it's totally burnt away the petrol/diesel, just wipe the soot off it (or give it a blast of carb cleaner/brake cleaner), and it should be good as new.......

 

TSC - kind of wish I'd read your post before putting it all back together yesterday, oops...!

Well, all back together now, lightened flywheel, new bolts and I'd cleaned up the clutch friction plate as best I could, to be honest it didn't look or feel epecially oily so I hope it'll be alright, just gave it a scrub with some thinners and stuff.

I tested the car briefly today and although much better, the clutch still started to slip at 4 - 5k rpm in 4th gear I'm hoping this is just a teething issue and it will bed in a bit once it's used and warmed up, getting rid of any remaining oil in the friction plate... am I hoping for too much? Wish I'd replaced the clutch now!

Could someone please reply with some nice positive stories about how a slipping clutch they had once cured itself by some miracle when driven carefully for a few hundred miles as that's what I need to hear! The thought of taking it all apart again is not very appealling at the moment to say the least!

It's funny that it doesn't slip when taking up drive, moving off, or in the lower gears but in 3rd and 4th at higher rpm it will slip then grip again and go ok - is this a good or bad sign?

On a more positive note, the lightened flywheel makes the thing fly at high rpm in the lower gears, can't test the higher gears as the clutch plays up then!

 

The Audi Quattro service team used to pour coca cola on the clutch to solve oil related slippage... Not sure about the wisdom of that for road applications though... you might find a wasps nest in your bellhousing the next time you take the box off

Slipping is never a good sign... Did you clean the mating faces of flywheel and pressure plate with brake cleaner / thinners? I usually give them a rub with coarse grit sandpaper to make sure they've got a good grip of the clutch - especially on a higher mileage flywheel. Do you know if they did any machining on the mating face when they lightened the fly?

 

My thinking is that after a few miles is will stop slipping when it's got rid of the film of oil. Here's hoping anyway

 

That's what I want to hear! I mean, knowing my luck the thing is knackered and will have to come apart, but at the moment I'm thinking positive thoughts...

Mike - yeah, cleaned up the mating surfaces of the flywheel and pressure plate with thinners, both looked in good order, didn't use any sandpaper though it sounds like a good idea now Not sure if there was any machining on the mating face of the flywheel, Hotgolf might know? Just looked normal to me?

I'm going to forget about it and just use half throttle for a while (doesn't slip then) and see if it calms down in time, seems like the best approach for now. Failing that, maybe dump some brake cleaner through the timing inspection hole in the bellhousing?

 

I'll try...

Same situation - but with a paddle. Was ok & stopped slipping, post new pushrod seal, within 100 miles.

 

I'll try...

Same situation - but with a paddle clutch. Was ok & stopped slipping, post new pushrod seal, within 100 miles.

 

Cheers Chris, more 'happy thoughts', fingers crossed I will be so lucky then

My thinking is that with the different 'box in there, which I've fitted new pushrod seal, bush and input shaft seal on, there shouldn't be any more oil getting in there so any that's left in there will surely go away over time with heat and careful use? I checked the crank seal on the engine and that seems fine, was new about a year or so ago when I installed the 6A so don't think it was that causing contamination.

If it still slips in a few weeks then I will simply have to impose a rev limit of 5k rpm or get a new clutch

 

Oh, meant to update this a while ago - guess what the clutch stopped slipping like Mr Eyre suggested after a few hundred miles of restrained use.

Now I can use the full power of the car in any gear (where the law permits of course...) and don't seem to get any slippage. Plus with the flowed cylinder head and light flywheel it feels quicker than ever, much to the annoyance of a bloke in a 350Z on a dual carriageway yesterday who seemed alarmed that he couldn't loose a standard looking old Golf at, erm, 'motorway speeds'. Admittedly he was quicker, but not drastically so, certainly not enought to warrant the extra 22,000 or whatever he'd spent on his car compared to mine...

 

hi there people. i got my clutch today from ECP. they said it would be a sachs item, but its LUK. not too fussed at the moment.

i also brought a crank seal as that may be useful.



that is it there. recon itll work? they had no input shaft seals

hi res pic here

http://www.picturevillage.com/photo/showpic.php?aid=24049&pid=339563&uuid=3557