1990 CE2 Digifant 8v not starting

All very interesting. Thanks for sharing this thread, I had not read this one before.

 

@Gti1990xyz - took a while, but tracked it down again - so here's some more toilet reading for you... https://oldbluesblog.com/files/DigifantProTrainingManual_SingleSided.pdf make sure there's plenty of ink in the printer!

It's written with a US slant, though still useful.

You're getting pelted with ideas, another one to add to the list - What Ohms are you getting on the primary and secondary side of your coil.

Is it a genuine Bosch or a replacement / what brand if so?

Asking because there's 2x types for Golfs, one has twice to triple the secondary resistance than the other.

I'm also finding some aftermarket 'equivalents' are being wrongly specced as the lower type when in reality they're the higher.

Combine that with potential for mismatched leads / plugs with built in resistance and an incorrect gap, it could all add up to starting / running issues or damage to other components over time.

 

Battery on charge again!

Still not starting.

Need help with this;
Assume the hall sender 3 pin connector is at 6'o clock.

Now on my newly source old stock swapped distributor the hall effect pick up is also at 6'o clock

My original was at 12'o clock is that going to confuse the ECU?

Both distributors work, when you rotate them they cause the coil to spark. When both are installed on car to match timing the hall connector and rotor arm are approx the same position with regards to engine so that is correct. Its just the difference of location of the hall sender withing the solid cast distributor body.

Any advice much appreciated.

 

Hi Zender,

thanks for the info.

Coil is a Bosch 1220522016 and probably is original.

Primary resistance between pin 15 and pin 1 is 0.9 ohms
Secondary resistance between HT port and ground strap is 'open circuit' I even tried scraping at grounds to get a bare metal contact.

Now if you use pin 1 as ground and HT port 4 you get 2.95 kilo ohms.

I think coil is dead on HT side which is strange as I was seeing sparks. Then again, I am sniffing petrol at exhaust end when cranking and not firing.

I've ordered a coil from Heritage, thanks for your help.

Regards,
Garry.

 

Hi Jonny,

thanks for the reply here and facebook. Afterwards I uploaded the photo to facebook as a picture paints a thousand words. I did recently pay and join this club but I cannot see how I can upload photos.

I have ordered a coil and vac pipe from heritage as I think coil is dead as per my reply to Zender today.

Cheers,
Garry.

 

0.9 for the primary is above what either coil type should be showing.

2.95 however would be nicely within the secondary range for the lower resistance coil.

It's imaterial if you use terminal 1 or 15 when checking the secondary, both'll give the same reading, so if one's an open circuit and the other's not I'd imagine that suggests something's amiss.

1220522016 is the part number of the black cap, the coil itself is the number pressed into the base eg. 0221122349.

 

Ah ok. Thanks for reply. Your answer on the primary resistance gives confidence that i'm not spending on parts I don't need. Could be reason car was guzzling fuel also prior to this breakdown.

I initially measured HT side on pin 4 HT lead and can ground which was wrong. In fact, I should have measured secondary via pin 1 and 4 and for this I got 2.95 Kilo ohm. If you measure between 15 and 4 then you should get 2.95 kilo ohm plus 0.9 ohm... which in reality will not show up on my multi meter scale anyway.

Its been a learning journey this week! Here is a pic of my beast!

Thanks to all for the advice.

 

Hi,

changed coil and TCI-h as both were cheap, no difference. I did this based on the resistance value of the coil and the fact my rev counter doesn't jiggle during cranking (it does work, when it intermidently fires - the needle jiggles).

Today I disconnected main under car fuel pump at harness in boot, put my ammeter in series with the in tank fuel pump, bridged relay 90 (pins 30 and 87) and I observed 0.71A current draw. Is this about correct?

I had read in the Digifant pro training manual that pump current (vague - seems they do not ever refer to in tank pump) should be;

Ammeter readings should be approximately 2.5 to 3.5 amps. Lower reading may indicate poor ground. Higher reading may indicate dragging pump motor. Pump must be replaced.

I can do similar tests on the in-tank pump if someone on here knows the current draw I should expect running in-tank pump only.

Started hailstones here, so I didn't do the fuel delivery tests yet. Also I will pull pump out of tank.

Thanks.

 

What readings did you get for the new coil?

 

The new coil primary was 1.4 ohm, the old coil was 0.9 the other day so i re-tested old one again and it was also 1.4 ohm, who knows why it changed.

 

Put up the primary and secondary ohms for both the original and the new coil, plus the make / number of the new coil if it's not a direct Bosch replacement.

The coil may well not turn out to be your issue but you'll not know that until you check it's within spec / rule it out.

 

I'm going to stop this troubleshooting for today as I think my sump has been diluted with petrol, went to sniff the dipstick and level has risen 5mm above top fill line. Took out 4x spark plugs and all are fuel wet, left them out as per Jonnys suggestion previously and you can see liquid on some piston tops.

Any ideas?

 

Hi Garry,
One way or the other, you're going to have to change the oil and filter if there is that much fuel sloshing around the sump and block - painful I know.
Have you changed out that fuel filter yet? If not, take a break from the real ballache and just get those relatively straightforward jobs done.

Full transparency - with my 8v, I have done a lot of work/troubleshooting trying to get her to run at 100% - she's probably at 85-90% but I have still other things I need to look at.

It's in an older thread here somewhere but to summarise:
(New) Fuel filter, spark plugs, HT leads, distributor cap, rotor arm, blue coolant sensor, ISV, vacuum hoses, loom checked and retaped, throttle body opened and cleaned, new alternator, immobilizer removed, engine bay grounds cleaned/replaced, ECU connections checked and cleaned, TCI connections checked and cleaned.

Last on my list are a new distributor and check the throttle switches and wiring.

Robert

 

Hi Robert,

thanks for the info. I changed the fuel filter last week.

I don't mind changing the oil and filter.

Cleaned out ISV which buzzes, tried another also.
Gone over vacumm hoses, all OK. Even bunged brake servo end to totally omit all that stuff.

Highlighting what I have done from your list;


(New) Fuel filter, spark plugs, HT leads, distributor cap, rotor arm, blue coolant sensor, ISV, vacuum hoses, loom checked and retaped, throttle body opened and cleaned, new alternator, immobilizer removed, engine bay grounds cleaned/replaced, ECU connections checked and cleaned, TCI connections checked and cleaned.

Last on my list are a new distributor and check the throttle switches and wiring.

I feel I need to remove fuel injector rail and record volume delivered and do the fuel pressure tests running/full pelt/pump off holding pressure test... Just I don't have a pressure guage.

Thanks.

 

Hooked up guage to fuel manifold.
Bled bubble free fuel from manifold nipple to guage and drained to a beer can.

Key to Ign On, fuel rail rises to 2.5 bar
Cranking over Fuel rail is 3.0 bar during cranking.
Stopped cranking and fuel will held 2.0 bar after 10 mins

second attempt
Cranking over Fuel rail is 3.0 bar during cranking.
Stopped cranking and fuel will held 2.6 bar after 10 mins

Car not firing.

This suggests FPR is good and next step is to remove injectors for spray parttern and volumetric test?

Thanks.

 

Definitely change the oil. No point causing harm with diluted lubricant.

Is the flap moving freely on the air flow meter?

Did you try start/run it on "Easi-Start" or similar?
If it fires, you have a fuel issue, if it doesn't it's likely ignition

Did you check voltage at the ecu while cranking?

And you're happy with your cam timing?
Crank at TDC, rotor at plug lead to cylinder one, valves on 1 both closed?

I got caught out once by this with an incorrectly marked cam pulley.

 

Hi Tristan,

thanks for the info.

Actually may have made a bit of progress today, I guy called round today with a spare ECU,, fuel injector rail, AFM and thirty years mechanical know how, first thing he said was rev counter isn't jiggling whilst cranking, we hooked up strobe timer light to HT leads and king lead. No indication of spark. He was busy and had to leave. I had the car sparking the other day with plugs out. But I had changed so much about that I eventually had my old distributor back in. Today I put the new distributor onto the engine loom, put key to Ign On, then spun the distibrutor by hand and the coil sparked away and rev counter needle jiggled (so the spark system can work). So I put the battery on charge.

Then I swapped out distributor and timed it as per your comment. When I crank over the car the rev counter that we know to function did not jiggle. So something during cranking is preventing coil getting triggered via pin 1 red/black wire (which is also the wire for rev counter).

So tomorrow I will change ignition switch as this is an easy swap.

What else during cranking would cause this?

I'm going to study the wiring diagrams later.

Also, instead of cranking on starter, a bump start may be the order of the day... but the failed to spark during cranking would still be an issue.

Thanks.

 

Ignition amplifier?

Or a loss of voltage to the ecu while cranking
A bad earth ?