So I'm enjoying my 20vt but thinking of building another engine for more power in the future I want to hit 400 HP but am not sure if this we be way to expensive or even possible without mega bucks spent . Is this possible with a blend of off the shelf VW parts from the huge 20v range ? What block would be a good start point and what head ? Turbo choices ? Manifolds too ? And what box will handle this ? Will those standard VW O2a or 02j handle it without mods (not including Lsd) Also I'm guessing OEM management won't be good enough so Ms or similar will be needed so what block to get and what mods to it ? Or would I be better aiming a little lower on power and save huge bucks,at what power point do you need to come away from stock-ish components ? Thanks , Steve
I think anything over the 280hp mark you'll need to start putting some serious cash into the engine to strengthen it and and increase the lifespan of your engine. Rods ect ect... Have you thought about going hybrid k03s ? These can be had for around 700 new, and are a direct bolt on, allowing you to retain your downpipe, lines ect. I've been in a Mk2 running a beach buggy k300, and it was a beast on the road! As far as I know it was running standard internals with a map. (AUM small port engine too), which IMO was a little dodgy, but its still going strong to this day. My engine has upgraded rods, but my cylinder head is standard. If I were to go for a around 280-300, I'd seriously think about updating the head with uprated valves ect, just for piece of mind. Its worth thinking about though. At least with a good mapper it'll be driveable in normal conditions, with the power there when you need it. I'm seriously thinking about a hybrid at the moment.
My car is awesome at the moment, it's electric to drive and pulls like a train, but I want even more of that crazy pull when you mash the throttle , I'm sure the best bottom end coupled with the big valve head and a little work will show good improvements . Anyone know what the best engine code bottom end is ? I guess the head is AGU
For that power all bottom ends are good enough as they are essentially all the same Small port or big port head will easily handle that power so do not concern your self with engine codes Some come with forged cranks some with cast, majority come with forged pistones but some are cast some have 19mm piston pins some are 20mm But all have one common thing and that is weak rods so they will need changing regardless of the engine code As for rest of variations do not worry as even cast cranks and pistons are good for alot more then 400 bhp But if it makes you feel better then look for an AGU lump then you are future proof for even more then 500 bhp for which you will need rods as said above but also inconel exhaust valves That is it as far engine internals are concerned But to have drivable 400+ horse in a mk2 you will need uprated clutch, LSD in g.box, uprated engine mounts, decent suspension and decent brakes, 3" downpipe and exhaust Decent fuel pump will be needed like walbro 255 or Bosch 044 with injectors to suit turbo/power goal Turbo wise you will need decent manifold, preferably decent tubular one for reliabilty and a GT28 frame turbo at min but GT3071 would be a good choice tho will be laggy Jabbasport manifold and Ihi VF34, VF22 would mayne just about reach your power goal but they do run hot Obviously decent radiator and fans will be required along with good quality Intercooler Engine management wise, do not rule out OEM stuff as it is rather good and can handle any power if your hardware is up to it Anyway you go about it it will be costly thats for sure but stay away from ebay cheap crap as you will only end up doing it twice at least You shoul seriously consider K04 Hybrid with good manifold as this will give you up to 350 bhp with mountain of torque and drive loads better then bigger frame turbo and most of it will just bolt on
As Sambo says. Pretty much the same route I have gone down with my mk4, but with ko3 hybrid and aiming for 300 ish bhp. A billet steel flywheel would an added bonus too if you can. I would imagine a LSD would be a must for that sort of power?? Dont forget decent tyres either, if you want to get anywhere safely.
So look for a block with forged piston and crank, add decent rods, and an AGU head and that'll be a good start point Is there a block with both forged pistons and crank from standard ?
Agu, Bam, Amk, I can think of from 06a internal water pump family and AEB from 058 external pump family Agu and AEB have large port head As above just some decent rods and inconel exhaust valves, supertech or ferrea and providing rest of engine hardware is good this will support <500 bhp Standard fasteners will be up to the job but obviously arp are desirable I would also lightly hone the block whilst Pistons are out
Do not buy Ferrea valvetrain. It will cost you very expensive machining to work in the head to get the springs etc to work. My advice would be to buy Supertech. I just did this for a project and have all the measurements after spending considerable time both at home and also at the engineering shop. I can echo most of what Sam said. The main thing with these power based engine builds, is you must be fully competent to plan the job, know what breaks and what does not and be able to blueprint most of the build. Any 20v motor that is being pushed beyond the nominal 220-280bhp, sub 300lbft and a rev limit of 7200rpm, will need some funds thrown at it if it is to be a durable in service.
As Eddie (toyotec) said do not buy valve train as in spring kit due to clearance issues he has experinced Valves are fine and probably some of the best out there
^^Yup, valves all good, rest of the kit is nothing what it says in the sheet. Had to have 20 spring platforms machined in the end. In hindsight, the Supertech kit with inconel exhaust valves and stainless steel intakes are a better deal as they drop in.
Hi Steve have a look at item no. 252004877591 in ebay I can't seem to paste the link I'd buy something like that hybrid the turbo and fits some new rods and with the right mapping you'll be near 300bhp add some injectors and I'm sure you'll be around the 350 Bhp mark for not huge money I'm planning on fitting some new rods in mine as I've got the doges crank and pistons already Are you going to inters ?
GT28 at 400 hp will be blowing a lot of hot air GTX28 would be perfect, but these are still pretty expensive, MUCH more advanced design that the older series GT30 series (37/71/76/R will not really matter) will be perfect especially with a reasonably small turbine AR, nice and available, very affordable it will still be a bit on off but better than detonating motors trying to combust hot air
Looked at that Paul....Problem is you will still need at best 630cc injectors and a larger turbo to chase 400bhp. Plus the rest of course. Style D guys have a chap who will create a hybrid turbo once you have a rebuildable core. Very affordable.
In general from what i noticed is that Ferrea tend to go for very strong spring forces, IMO much to much for most aplications...unless extreme boost levels are used... as a result thick spring wire is used ( what limits valve lift and sooner go coil bind)...also mounted lenght and netto valve lift given on their spec sheet does not correspond with std/oem mounted lenghts...as a result valve seats need to cut down ( valve sit deeper in combustion chamber ) or spring platforms or head material underneat the spring need machined.... Certainly when performance cams with more lift are used you best check for full lift clearance/ coil bind / clearance to valve seal and get an extra safety margin.... think space is limited so it all pretty much at the edge... in some aplications valve guides need pressed deeper to get the desired clearance between valve seal and retainer
Cheers HPR. What you said is exactly what CTM said to me without prompting. They do a lot of V8 stuff as well and said the American components like these tend to have very high spring forces approaching wearing the cam and increasing friction! Hope slimwadey can see from this, there is more to just targeting a BHP and throwing parts at it. Quite a lot of patience involved even if you have all the bits sitting there to be fitted.
I run almost 400bhp. My take on it is that it's not just about hitting that figure, it's more about how the power/torque is delivered at that level that's important. It will be very hard to keep traction and I'd suggest considering management that allows multiple maps and gear based boost control just in case you need to use it, I do. I'm also a fan of boring out to 1900, think it helps makes the delivery more constant and maintains more consistant torque across the rev range. It's easy to hit 400 with a 1.8T, but doing it so that the car is still driveable requires a bit more thought and suitable upgrades over and above the engine. I used Supertech valves on my build.
Seems i'll be tracking down an AGU engine, i know of a block, but maybe find a complete unit from a mk4, or buy a mk4 with one in, strip parts for sale and keep engine
