20v spec check - AEB fitting list

Discussion in '1.8 & 1.8T' started by micky1, May 17, 2009.

  1. micky1 Forum Member

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    I'm gonna run a 1.8T in my mk1.

    I have th engine, a 98 passat AEB motor. similar to AGU but mounted longditudinally. It ran sweet as a nut ,75k and was in an auto so not so much of a hard life.

    I have a AGU inlet manifold, i guess i'll need a different sump?

    what else would need to be changed?

    I also have some 440cc injectors and a K04 off my mk5 gti that was briefly converted to ED30/S3 spec. This turbos good for 320+ hp in a 2.0L TFSI

    would a top mounted manifold with the K04 and the 440 injectors make a good combo?

    Don't want to open it up at the mo, just want to see it running so not looking for max HP. Rods, pistons vaves etc later on.

    Any suggestions would be greatfully recieved!
     
  2. 20v_jimmy Forum Member

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    hi cant be of much help as far as the k04 from the tfsi is concerned but i believe it is totally different and not really usable as a bolt on mod, as i say im not too sure on this tho.

    I can however offer a little advise to using the AEB engine. The AEB is infact quite different to most of the other 1.8t engines in that it is based on the 058 block. This is basically an evolution of the older 16v and 8v blocks and as such uses an external water pump. There is a lot more information on using these engines on vw vortex as the engine was far more common over in america.

    When using this engine in a transverse mounted vehicle such as the mk1 you will need to change several pieces. The sump as you mention can be swapped with the steel sumps from the earlier 8v or 16v engines or even with the sump from the 1.6td (as this includes an oil drain fitting for the turbo).

    The inlet manifold could be swapped for one from an AGU as they are both largeport, this would also have the mount for a cable throttle body such as the throttle from a 2E 8v engine.

    You will also find you will have to swap the oil filter housing as the AEB one will interfere with the front engine mount and gearbox. The best swap here is for one from a 1.9td as this bolts up and is tapped for the oil feed to the turbo, however it is also possible to use the filter housing from a 2 litre 8v or 16v although this would need to be tapped for the oil feed.

    Further to this you will also probably want to swap the accessory belt setup to one from an earlier 16v engine, this could be either the 16v KR which would be a v-belt setup, or the better option would be the ABF setup. The reason for this is the bottom cambelt pulley for the 16v is the same as the 20v so it is all just bolt on. For this you will need the alternator and brackets as well as the crank and waterpump pulleys / tensioner. I believe it would also be possible to use the diesel setup however it has a very heavy harmonic damper, or possibly the full 8v alternator serp belt setup but with an ABF crank pulley.

    One final thing to check is you say your engine came from an automatic. I believe that the automatic engines may have had a pilot bearing attached to the crank for the auto gearbox. This should be removed when converting to a manual box as it could come loose and wreak havoc with the clutch.

    These are the main issues i can think of right now, the best bet is to have a read on vortex as there is a large amount of information on this setup. If you want some links to threads then give me a shout as i have a large list saved. Hope some of that is of help.

    Cheers, James
     
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  3. StuMc

    StuMc Moderator and Regional Host - Manchester Moderator

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    Nice info there. :clap:

    I`d add that 440cc injectors would be far too large unless you are going for massive power, which it doesn`t sound like you are at the moment.
     
  4. micky1 Forum Member

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    Great info Jimmy. I'd, we'd, like some links if poss. Had heard about the 16v sump fitting, didn't know the rest!

    Engine was V. cheap and a good base ala AGU.
     
  5. micky1 Forum Member

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    Are the 440cc injextors too much for the K04? that'll be going on as i can fab a top manifold out of S/S easily here.
     
  6. Mook

    Mook Forum Member

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    No, they're not too much for a K04 - you can run 550cc injectors with a K04 without any problems, it's all about getting the AFR (air/fuel ratio) right when it's mapped, preferably on a rolling road.

    With those sized injectors, you don't need a higher fule pressure reg either.

    But are they necessary? Nope. But it depends if you're going to modify the engine later to go over 280bhp.
     
  7. micky1 Forum Member

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    Mook eventual plans for BT and serious bottom end. I physically have these parts so i guess i'd like to use them.
     
  8. Mook

    Mook Forum Member

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    BT?

    And what do you mean by "serious bottom end"?

    What is your target bhp and what stages are you wanting to do this in?
     
  9. 20v_jimmy Forum Member

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    Agree with mook that no, 440cc injectors are not too big for a k04 turbo, i believe the k04 from the tfsi is also capable of flowing a fair bit more than the k04-023 etc from the 20v engines.
    A couple of things are worth mentioning here however, firstly which 440cc injectors are they? as one of the main options sold by tuning companies here in the uk are the bosch "green" 440cc injectors, these are far from ideal on 20vt engines as the spray pattern causes the fuel to puddle in the inlet tract.
    The second thing to consider is which engine management you plan to use.

    One thing i forgot to mention before is that the k03 turbo and manifold from the AEB are different to those used on the transverse engines, these can be used however you couldnt use the bolt on downpipe from qpe for example. Or the whole setup could be swapped for a transverse manifold and turbo from a golf. If you do go with the k04 obviously this wont affect you.

    As mook says, it would be worthwhile planning now what you eventually want to achieve so as not to end up spending twice over. Things such as which engine management you will use? What bhp and power delivery are you trying to achieve? etc etc. Generally a "serious bottom end" is not required for sensible power from these engines, a set of rods will be needed for anything over around 300lbft but other than that the bottom end is fairly strong.

    From looking at the pictures of the reeves golfs i believe both of these are running 20vts based on the 058 external waterpump block. Here is a selection of links from the vortex, some of these are fairly basic swaps, some are full on engine builds.

    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3218953&page=1 (AEB scirocco in the uk)
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4024114 (AEB mk1)
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3341492 (BT AEB corrado)
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3847486 (another mk1 AEB)
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3518406 (another BT corrado)
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2993634 (BT mk1)
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2941232&page=1 (2.0 AEB BT build)
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3335766&page=1 (2.2 20v build)

    Cheers, James
     
  10. Mook

    Mook Forum Member

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    Nice post James :thumbup:
     
  11. micky1 Forum Member

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    BT- Big turbo! Serious bottom end mean a rebuild, new rods, pistons, re bore 1.9 plus any other bits i pick along the way.

    I have a set of New bosch green 440's? interesting to say the spray pattern isn't right for a 20v. Never considered it really! Ah well. Not worth installing?

    Final target is 400 HP ish, drivability is where i'm at, having watch reeves mk1 put down more than that it is possible and with the mk3 wide track set up i have in mine i'm hoping for better!

    I hope to keep the mk1 build weight pegged to around 800 KG although it'll more likely be more like 900.

    i'm happy to try the MK5 K04 as when fitted to my mk5 was strong and 320 hp! And as you rightly state the mani etc all wrong anyways.

    It will run factory ecu defeated and mapped when running.

    Thanks for the links!
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2009
  12. Mook

    Mook Forum Member

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    Hope you've got some serious cash put aside if you're after a reliable 400bhp.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't go for that kind of horsepower, but why have you set that as your goal? Have you driven a 270bhp 1.8T Mk1 or Mk2? It's bad enough getting the power down in that with an LSD and semi-slicks and you'll probably find it's more than enough :thumbup:

    Yes, you could say that you can never have enough power, but you just can't get 400bhp onto the road in a FWD car.
     
  13. micky1 Forum Member

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    Mook, don't get hung up on the figures!

    I am using what parts i have for now hence the thread. My mk1 when finished will be able to handle it...trust.

    Any suggestions on what injectors will suit the mk5 K04 if bosch greens aren't?

    There are some heavy threads in that link! 2.2 builds amazing!
     
  14. HidRo Forum Member

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    I would say it depends on the setup you have. For me, I may now reach 260 or 270hp on a mk2, but with a k04. This means torque will be monstruous (:lol:) and low down the rev range. will spin easier. I've seen some clips of a friend that has a 16vt with a gt30, and it doesn't spin as much as mine does, and I assume it has more power than me.
     
  15. Mook

    Mook Forum Member

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    It's your money mate!

    Genesis 550
     
  16. micky1 Forum Member

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    Ok after alot of shufting i'm not gonna fit the mk5 K04...i've sold it instead!

    will get a turbo suitable for future boost, build the tubular manifold and keep the boost sensible...or buy a conversion thats already done, running and play with that..

    What turbo would you run if you had a choice?
     

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