ok thats a relief.......yeah i got the 2E engine, so am looking forward to getting it done! have a ported/polished head on the way from Vagobonds, who apparently is an absolute wizard, all i know so far is his work is very reasonably priced, and from what i can tell from the pics his work looks very proffesional. Will give a full report back once i receive and fit the head! couple that with a high lift cam (still undecided between 272 and 268 newman items, if anyone wants to chuck in their 2p's worth) and i hopefully will see a solid 145-150bhp ( at STEALTH, of course!) May consider a remap at a later stage. Stealth's rollers are definitely a bit fruity, i've heard on the corrado-forum of standard 1.8 16v's making 150bhp there, then up to 160bhp with the WUR adjusted!
What compression is the 2E running compared to the 3A? The 3A is the same as all the 1.8s at 10 to 1 isn't it? Barkstar
Really, I thought it was 10:1 for the 2e, you even said it in another post I wish I had a MK3 haynes manual, but I'm too tight to buy one for a car that I don't own
Your favourite manual and VAG info I had here said 10.4 for Passat 31 chassis 2E and 10.4 for Audi 80. We all learn something new everyday. Even I thought it was 10:1 for the 2E and I was wrong. But it established the fact that the ECUs for PB and 2E motors are calibrated differently.
Haynes isnt my favourite manual, the bentley is. Haynes has let me down so often, the love has gone stale [:^(] There is a bit of opposing information on the compression ratio, carfolio.com also says 10.4, but another set of tech PDF manuals recons the 2.0 MK3 lumps are 10.1. Could the metal HG I fitted explain why I don't have issues with pinking when you did, or did that happen after you fitted other bits n bobs? It would be interesting to see the injection maps of both engines, and maybe see about getting a performance 2.0 map into a digifant chip. Way over my technical abilities, I tried reading through one of the ECU hacking threads on the vortex, but my binary coding days are far, far behind me
I have seen this conflicting infomation you speak about on carfolio, Jweltys and Fast fruits performance. But VW says 10.4 for their 2E motor so I am inclined to go by that. With regard to my 3A I have tried everything you can think of with STD parts to attempt at reproducing the response and torque curve of my old EV K-jet engine, with a bit more torque from the start and failed. So I have an old skool 1.8v motor that can outdo my newer 2.0 motor? As a swap the 2.0 engine is has more torque initially than the 1.8 engine. The factory 2 litre's 122lbft @ 3500 will outdo a 115lbft 1.8 8v effort at the same revs. But what happens after 3500? What happens when the load sensor tells the ecu that it is at max 1.8 8v torque at only 2000 revs and the ECU outputs the value for spark timing, for a 10:1 compression engine, at 3500rpm on a 10.4:1 2.0 motor ? What would the torque curve look like compared to a well sorted STD 1.8 PB. Certainly not exciting as say a EV K jet with a 16v or Audi 5clyinder WUR that will hold at least 120lbft to 4000revs before slowly tapering off to make peak power at 6000rpm. All are different experiences and I believe that the 2.0 motor should top them all using std parts made to work. Understanding a bit about ECU calibration has helped to determine why the PB controller is not up to the task of giving me what I want hence its going into the bin. We will see what happens when the MS controller is installed. If this works I will experiment with other factory add ons to coak a bit more out of it and evaluate/measure.
Cool, where did you get the VW figures by the way? Could the better EV power curve be anything to do with the hotter cams they had? I heard that even though the late hydro EV & PB engines have the same cam listed on ETKA, the EVs actually had a better cam than the PB engines. I think this info originates from Golden, but I got it second hand from a seller off the no-rice forums. He couldn't tell me much about the differences but claimed when sat next to each other you could definitly tell the difference!
I too tried reading one of those hacking the PB ecu threads too - I'm a programmer but Bosch/VW Assembler is not one of my skills unfortunately. Most of the performace chips don't "remap" as such - they just seem to increase fuel by a uniform amount across the range. I'd love to get an EPROM programmer and some blanks. Plus then write some software that would let you adjust all the maps in an easy way so you could take it to a RR But I think I'll save that for a winter bed-time reading project
You right. I have some bin maps for digifant fuelling and some vague infomation on the addresses. But the actual ignition maps are in the motorolla CPU in these. This is where I was stomped. Plus unless you have an emulator to map the car would be shooting in the dark as you would have to log/get a mate to see which block was the offending while you drive and simulate load sites one then go back and reburn eprom or eeprom to correct and hope all is well. Sort of long winded compared to instant changes.
If you look in your favourite manuals, you will see the cam timing specs for EV motors and the the suppliment the specs for the PB. Then it will be second hand infomation from Haynes . Edited* VW parts does list the early 026 109 101 G camshaft as being fitted to EV and PB engines in 1987 as well to the 3A motor. The shorter inlet duration 026 109 101 A cams where on 1989 PBs, GU motors and the 2E. I plan on experimenting with this when the car is on megasquirt to see if there is more or less to be gained.
026 109 101 Q is a 1.8 carb cam, 026 109 101 M is listed for the 1.6 carb, and 026 109 101 G is listed for the EV & PB. I really dont think a 1.8 carb cam was fitted to early GTIs, and I dont think a 1.,6 carb cam would be fitted to a 2e engine Edit: The 2e got 026 109 101 A, and 3A got 026 109 101 G This is all according to ETOS 3 & ETKA 7, unless you have an earlier version that differs?
The problem you have here is that the good ol haynes says that EV cams have differnent cam timing events than the 3A and PB which are the same. You can look at the 19 Mk2 Golf,31 Passat and 8A Audi manuals to see what I am getting at. Yet VW part lists as one part number. Confusing indeed. Not that it would make a difference to what I was talking about earlier about the ECU and its calibration playing a big part limiting the performance of these motors.
Yeah thats what I was saying in earlier post, the very early EV apparently got a hotter cam, but it was dropped and replaced with the PB cam. ETKA doesn't say anything about it, and unfortunatly VW/Audi cams dont have part numbers on so you can't really tell. As I said, apparently this nugget of information came from Golden, who used to work at VW I believe. Of course its one of those great bits of information that is extremely hard to verify, and I must add I have no way to back this up, classic 'something I heard from a bloke down the pub' quote The problem here is what year engine were the timing quotes taken from, and have the cams since been replaced with a new part number that differs
My 3A project is on the backburner at the moment - finishing my '75 Yamaha XS650 flat tracker But after reading all this I'm rather glad it's going in a Driver with a Weber Barkstar
So should i use the 2E ECU when doing this conversion or not? Also, like rubjonny said, would a metal headgasket go someway to rectifying this problem, by slightly lowering the compression?? How much would a metal HG lower it by? cos if it takes it from 10/1 to 10.4/1, then it's problem solved, right?
the only way you can use a 2e ecu would be to use the 2e head & injection system, which is a fair ammount of work compared to fitting the MK2 head and hooking all the std injection back up. Although if you're doing the conversion to a carb car its just as much work to use the MK3 stuff as it is to use MK2 stuff, so you might as well go with the MK3 system.
