9a, ABF or Kr Turbo HELP Please!!!!

I really need some help here to help me make up my mind. I want to turbo an engine, either the 1.8 16v kr engine or the 2.0 16v abf or possibly the 9a.


The 8v is ruled out because of the lag, im aiming for 300+ minimum. I will be getting steel rods and forged pistons whichever engine i choose.


Headwork will be done no matter what engine I go for.


The other thing I dont quite understand is 9a and kr engines would need a crank sensor and a few other sensors because it didnt originally come with any of these. How ever the abf already has these, is this correct? What needs to be done exactly to get the sensors and stuff working on the kr engine or 9a?


My reasons for the kr engine is its a proven engine, if anything messes up there as cheap as chips and readilly available. Only misgivings i have of these is its a 1.8 so extra strain for big power and putting the relevant sensors on it.


9a. Cheap not as available as the kr but havent really seen any examples of these putting out big power, same problem as the kr engine sensors.


ABF More expensive, not very available as the kr but newer, bigger capacity, less strain. Seen quite a few pushing big power but if i break something it will cost that much more thena kr.


My idea in the begining was an 8v but was told to go for a 16v instead, 16v kr was my ideal option but im a bit stuck.


Can anyone give me plus and negative points about these engine, which one do i choose. Which is better for turbocharging?


I have been reading up on all this is various places, everyone has there own choice.


I can use the s2 inlet manifold, the turbo manifold i will be using will be a new one for 16v engines.


The ecu will also be an aftermarket one, two choices i have at the moment are DTA or Emerald, both are good but Emerald owner certainly knows his stuff and any ecu is as good as the person mapping it. Emerald is also cheaper.


The main thing im aiming for here is RELIABILITY, car will be used daily and thrashed a hell of a lot. What recommendations can anyone give? Which ever engine I choose will get a rebuild, which reminds me, anyone know any decent places who do rebuilds but dont cost the earth?


Thanks for any help at all.


P.S Anyone here do any engine work?

 

if you are using it on the track go for the 9a short block ( rev it more than the ABF tallblock )

p.s. why turbo these and not get a 20vt?

 

Look down for a thread started by Dannyparp - the "ABA 16vT" is a tried
and tested 2.0 8V bottom end with any 16v head to lower the
compression ratio. Standard bottom end has put out 506bhp with reused
bigend bolts. Do you still want to spend all that money on forged
bits and pieces, given that you can get a 2.0 8V bottom end for about
50-100?

 

20vT, wheres the fun in that lol? It will cost roughly the same whichever route i take. This way I can build a 16v turbo block good for 500bhp without needing to rip it apart again, plus parts are lot cheaper for 16v's then 20vT's. It might see track action but will be a daily driver, hence need as much information as possible to get the best most reliable engine possible.


Greg, i did check out all the stuff the Americans are doing, only thing is i wont have time to make changes etc if things go wrong. I want piece of mind, hopefully this will give me it. I cant be asked to mess about with different engines etc.


I can get custom pistons and steel rods for about 700 money well spent in my eyes.


What sort of compression ratio do i go with for 300bhp+ ??





Thanks
Edited by: Paul-16vT

 

Good question about how reliable, bomb proof and powerful a homebrew
16vT can really be all at the same time...

Personally I wouldn't bother with a 1.8 if you're going for expensive
internals. The ABF is supposed to be the better engine out of the 2-
litres because of the better rod to stroke ratio (both have the same bore
and stroke). I believe the ABF also has a forged crank although this might
not be true for all of them.

As for compression ratios I wouldn't know. Take everything I say with a
pinch of salt given that I've not built one myself, just looked into it a bit.

 

Emaerald ECU's do look pretty hot for the money.

I'd definitely lean toward the 2.0l blocks over the 1.8 for a daily driver, for the extra torque you'll see off boost. If you're buying nice shiny new bits for the blocks then threr really isn't much to choose between them, parts cost roughly the same for each. The added height of the ABF may work against it if you're tight for space for everything. Crank sensor is fairly easy to add to the 9A, Badger5 sell a 36-1 wheel to fit the crank pulley, or there is a vauxhall 60-2 wheel that fits with little hassle too. I think the M3D supports both.

 

WouldI Be right in thinking that the ABF is a stronger engine then a kr?Also havent most of the turbo engines that theVAG group has produced had 81mm bore as opposed to theABF's 82.5? Something to do with water jackets etc. The Audi quattro's, S4 all had 81mm bore. As did the S2's, 1.8T's, RS2's andRS4's. Mos tof the n/a engines had 82.5mm bore. The internet is such a great place.


I did actually stumble upon something that said theearlier ABF engines supposedly had forged cranks.


The crank sensor any more information on this? Price by any chance? Did check the badger site but did not find any information. Any other sensors that I would need?


Is it true the kr head will give more power on an ABF engine then an ABF head which gives more torque?


Thanks



Edited by: Paul-16vT

 

Paul, keep us posted on the way you go, as i'm looking to do the same as you for a daliy driver putting out 250-300bph. i'm interested in reading more about the Emerald engine management, do you have an address? and what inlet/exhaust manifold are you planning to use?


Cheers


Dave

 

emerald = pony...DTA not to bad...go with MBE.....much better....

 

Yep will keep you updated. Emerald engine management address is http://www.emeraldm3d.com. From what I have read and heard it does the job, not got as many features as others but who uses them all anyway.The bloke who made the ecu is the one who maps it. Ecu is only as good as the person mapping it. I have heard bad things about the ECU but i dont know to much about this, people have problems but doesnt mean all of us will. On other forums people cant speak highly enough of the owner Dave Walker and his skills.


Slapbladder, how comes you dont like Emerald, why is MBE preferred over the latter two? Is MBE better for boosted applications?Info would be good.


My mate whos computer im using lol, is going to start selling pistons, rods, turbo manifolds for 8v and 16v engines, turbos etc. You cant beat him on price. I will be using all his parts but we are waiting for the first batch to arrive so we can test to see if they fit etc.


Question for anyone in the know, rebuilding an engine. Do you have to go with oversized pistons? Can the same sized pistons not be used again? Difference between honing and boring? Boreing is increasing the capacity right? In a rebuild can the same sized pistons be used again or do they have to be oversized?


How does compression ratio affect the amount of boost you can use? Very vague on the above two subjects.


Thanks

 

goes up in price too

 

Very true. The price does go up, Emerald does have a good price, mapping only costs 200 as opposed to 400 etc

 

im looking at doing this aswell to my ABF, already got my inlet manifold from inters for the bargin price of 30, gonna aquire bits as i go along as ive only just put the engine back together

 

hi, i turboed my abf engine over christmas, it has been running fine .i used my abf head on a 2L 8v 2E code bottom end which is supposed to be the same as the americans aba. ive just taken the head off to do the valve seals, to find that the valves have been hiting the pistons .i just thought i warn everyone because this conversion is so cheap and easy to do, the bottom end can definatley handle the power ,but on my new engine im going to get a groove cut into the pistons to clear the valves.

 

what exhaust manifold did you use??

 

I am doing a 16vt at the mo using a kr head. All the boys on the vortex say that the valves won't hit but that seems strange to me as the 9a pistons are notched. Thanks for your post. I think i will be safe and notch my pistons before i put it all back together. Don't suppose you know of anywhere i can get this done.


Also if i take the 2E pistons out can i use the same rings or do i have to use new rings and get the block honed.


Cheers

 

Antone - I have a KR/2E combo in the garage, and they do not hit anything - have you a lumpy cam, or a skimmed head?

 

Or maybe the ABF cams are lumpier....?

 

One of the pairs of 16v cams - I forget which - has higher lifts and
shorter durations than the other. Could be your problem.

 

I have the abf cams which are supposed to be higher lift than the kr ones maybe thats my problem, you might be alright with kr cam,s .they dont hit badly, my car was running fine i only took the head off to do the valve seals. The engineer that i use is BGV engineering in boreham just outside chelmsford 01245 362625 he is really good.I had 5 slightly bent valves and a mark on the top off each piston, so with the abf cams the valves definatley hit. the car ran a 14 sec quarter mile and 0-60 6.2 last week at gti inters, NO slicks and No slip diff so this conversion is very good.im using and atp manifold cossie t3, tial external wastegate and g60 management with an sns chip.im now building a kr block and im going to use the double metal headgasket method to lower compression the car should be back on the road next week ,if anyone wants any help with theirs let me know on 07984723505 im in essex.