Hi, I've been having a look through lots of threads and would like if possible to get a summary of what your combined experiences suggest for my MK3. It's a boggo 2.0 16v ABF at the moment, and I'm in the process of setting it up for road rallying, with November as the target date for completion. I won't fill this thread with non-related, info, but it's going to get an LSD and a shorter final drive (I've got some answers from the transmission section on that). The engine seems in good tune but I'd like to get a clear set of ideas on what to do to make it a bit more competetive (most of the cars in the club event seem to be running 160 - 200 bhp I want it doing on a sensible budget, but would like to get a bit more power when it's time for the engine to get looked at. Quite happy for it to be 'revvy' as the shorter ratios will cater for that, but really wanted to get an idea on head / cams / mapping (don't really want to change the injection or go to throttle bodies / MS this year). I've been on the phone half the day trying to get a number for someone that would gas flow the head but got nowhere. Any advice really welcomed, appreciate it's a broad ask but looking forward to some advice.
iv built a ABF on bike throttle bodys running MS, cat cam lighteded fly wheel no head work, just getting it running just now, just away to fit another fordy coil to let me run the origonal leads. hoping to hav a fun little mk1, id go for lightned flywheel a lumpy cam and a port and polish i ran out of cash so didnt do the head,yet anyway lol
Reshell it into a lighter car for a start If you've already got too much work invested in the shell, then what you're already doing the right thing with the transmission. Then I'd buy a pair of 272ish cams and go for standalone management like megasquirt. Get a head done too if the budget will run to it, or at least get it skimmed. Aim for a CR of about 11.25:1 I reckon that should be good for 180-190 bhp if it's mapped properly, to take advantage of the low ratio diff. You don't want to go for ITBs I reckon, as that'll increase the noise level and you might have problems passing noise checks. Note: You may well have emissions problems on the MOT with this setup. I'm assuming you'll have a friendly MOT man who'll recognise that it's a competition car and ignore that.
Using these baseline references, an ABF digi plenum engine with an appropiate header, tweaked air box, lightend flywheel will achieve ~160bhp@6400rpm and around 145lbft or twist at 4500rpm with torque dropping slighty to 140-135lbft until 6000rpm. With a FD 4.25 gearbox this will make for a fairly quick car. Some auction chips do improve the torque post 4500rpm i.e. up to 148lbft leading to a higher bhp number. A more punchy version would be a K-Jet car with up to 155+lbft@5000rpm and around 165PS@6000rpm. On the same gearbox and FD, a KJet car will feel more aggressive, than even a chipped digi 3.x due to the stronger torque. Of course I am making a sensible guesstimate based on data from many dyno runs and well maintained vehicles. As your racing requirements change as well as budget, resourse can be directed to getting quicker as the engine hardware can then be improved with better and more adjustable engine control, even by yourself, then further hardware modification to improve engine breathing and robustness can be added.
I just done an ITB'd vehicle with 276 cams that can pass the MOT. Idles at 1000 rpm and at 14.5:1 AFR. It was on a SEM with an idle scatter function though.
Thanks for the responses so far, very informative. I'm a bit too far into this car to reshell having picked up the car and a new OMP 6-point cage for less than 600, and to be honest I quite like the idea of having a bit of metal around me while I find my feet (the ABS is staying on for that purpose, but I'm going to wire the control unit so it can be switched off on gravel and also thinking about wiring it through a relay on the handbrake light so when I pull the handbrake it disables the ABS as I tried it the other night and if you try a handbrake turn then the ABS pump operates). Anyway, I digress.. So for the first stage would it be sensible to go for a decent pair of cams, gas flowed head, exhaust manifold and the intake box modifications as per the other Toyotec thread ? Combined with a rechip and a rolling road session I think that would be somewhere about the 170 mark ? The other thing I meant to mention is that for the next few months I'm going to be using it as a daily car, so I don't want (and can't afford) to go nuts on the engine spec. With regards to MOTs it got me thinking about the CAT, is there any real world benefit to removing it (my best friend is an MOT tester). I did it on a 2E Passat years ago and it did make quite a difference. I'm planning a 2.1 16v on MS for next year funds allowing, but that engine will be built while the car's in use and then installed. I think if I get a motor with 220, a dog box with LSD then it should be a reasonably competetive car. Do appreciate the input, been a long time since I mucked about with VWs to this extent (my MK1 Jetta 1.8 DX is still under cover in my Dad's back yard...).
Bin the cat if you have a friendly MOT man. Go megasquirt. You really won't regret it. The ABF management won't cope well with the overlap on the cams you need. I think if you do that, you'll probably decide you don't need the expensive engine build next year - you'll get about 190 bhp on that spec. Smudge has got that with ITBs, Flowed Head, and Standard Cams. Also, the MS conversion in an ABF is relatively easy, because you've already got all the electronic hardware to run it (sensors, injectors, throttle body with TPS). If you're reasonably good at wiring, you could take a week off work and get the management done and mapped in that time. You could leave it looking completely stock, apart from the ECU (EDIT] and some of the wiring loom. The only caveat I'd add to that, is that I'm making an assumption that the ECU on the ABF is only controlling the engine, unlike more modern cars where it's looking after body and trim functions as well. What sort of regs do road rallies run on now - do you have to keep the interior, sunroof, etc? Rules on lightened panels, polycarb windows? Better to shed as much weight as you can, rather than spending more on a less reliable, more expensive engine.
Road rallying (at the moment) requires carpets and rear seats, sunroofs can be plated over I believe and wiide arches are not allowed. Poly windows are fine (I'm looking into them now as the MK3 electrics and glass are quite heavy). The rear 'seats' can be a strip of foam across the back as far as I'm aware, and the carpts will be minus the underlay. I'm a keen believer of 'less is more' and anything that's not essential will be coming out. You're right on the ECU, the MK3 ECU doesn't talk to the electric window motors and all that rubbish.
I have a wanted thread looking for later 288mm setup, going to put some decent discs and pads in, with high spec brake fluid. Cheers
Ask Danster - he might have some. He also had some Mintex M1155 pads for those calipers, which he had from me ages ago (New old stock).
Really appreciate all the responses so far, will get a build thread going at some point or another. From the responses (and emails) I've been getting, it looks like standalone management would be a good place to start before anything else is done to the engine ?
Hello, late to the party unfortunately. Notice your location is Malvern. Mine is Montreal, but used to be Colwall. competing with the "60" are we? anyway I digress. I used to RR a golf 2 a few years ago, so here are some tips. 1st thing to do is the brakes: mintex pads (or some fade resistant competition stuff)+ the cheapest disks in the universe (makes them disposable). try to get a set-up that uses standard VW bits so you can get bargain disks from GSF in Lowesmore. Don't make the disks so big that you need huge alloys and rubber band profile tyres as they wont last long. Nice new DOT4 brake fluid (from halfords in the Link maybe). change it often. disable the ABS and learn how to stop it without. ABS doesn't really help on gravel anyway. relay the headlamps and ALWAYS carry a spare ignition switch. flicking from LB to HB all the time really puts load on the ig circuit and your navi has better things to do than hold the high beam on for you (it is RHD right?). the sunroof, if it's a steel one, has to be "permanently disabled" according to my 10 year old blue book. My golf won the Group N BRC in 88. "permanently disabled" meant that the PO took the winder handle off...... It got through scrutineering for the Lombard like that. A glass one has to be plated over as you suggest. get some wind up windows.. get a good navigator and buy a Terratrip. that will probably gain you more stage speed than megasquirt in your list of priorities. as would a sump guard, tank guard and fuel pump guard also helps on the "whites" as does putting the fuel lines and brake lines inside the car. RRs are also hard on shocks and ive had a set of standard Sachs ones go very bouncy towards the end of events. Bilstien HDs worked pretty well for me, oh and DON'T LOWER IT. then play with the engine. I used to rally in North Wales and there was a guy up there who used to regularly win with a 205 Diesel Van (with mintex brake pads) so huge horsepower is not as crucial as it might appear. "not slowing down"/"keeping one's foot in" is quite important. your LSD and short diff should be a pretty effective 1st step. A set of cams, a nice exhaust and clearing all of that "hot air intake valve" obstruction out of the airbox would be what I would do first. then maybe get a modified head once that lot just isnt fast enough. I'm not sure that ITBs would get you through Scrutineering, so I wouldn't go there. save some cash for the inevitable bodywork bills anyway, just my opinion
agree with everything the geo says, and make sure your charging system / battery and lights are top notch
Maybe look up steved`s threads as he built a Mk3 for circuit racing, some useful insights ... http://www.clubgti.com/forum/search.php?searchid=4285309 Good luck in the lanes
Hi, I missed the last few posts on this thread back in July, not sure how I did that. TheGeo, thanks for all the tips. I live near Barnard's Green (would like to move to Colwall at some point) I've just updated the build thread as I only picked up the car from the bodyshop last night (4 months in there) so I'm just starting on all the other jobs. The main jobs are to get the car so it will get to the end of every event it enters, the MSA have just changed the rules for next year which means that all road rally cars have to have the original bore and stroke that they left the factory with, and the inlet system must look the same as standard, so it's going to rule out a lot of the Millington engined Escorts that are winning most of these events and allow other cars to have a look in. This means I think the car will be fairly competetive with the standard-ish output and with good brakes, suspension, engine protection and most importantly a great navigator then we should get some decent results. I'm not bothered in the slightest about winning anyway, I've wanted to do road rallying since I was able to drive and I'm just up for the fun. This next couple of weeks are going to be busy bolting on some bits and bobs.
Good luck, get yourself out there. I remember our 1st RR event and it will be bleeding obvious where the car needs upgrading. We wrote a list inside the 1st hour of the event.
Reviving this from the dead, due to recent info. Final tip: use threadlock on the water pump pulley bolts
