Hi peeps amongst many things i'm sussing for my build (mk1, aeb, k04 yadayada) whats the best/cost effective option for engine managment. I understand this 8d0 907 557 t(me3.2 i belive) is a bit pants... But is it worth going old school chip and play, no mapping.. Something like the giac X3FT04.. I also belive this defeats the imobalizer aswell?? Or as so many people now go with a msll fuel and spark control... This obviously raises many more questions for me.. Basic sensors used 3 bar MAP built into msll, coolant temp, air temp, TPS, VR sensor (crank sensor) and lambda does that sound right?... I understand theres no knock protection unless a upgrade is bought, is that needed? Same with HALL? Then spark i want to run with the COP setup is that posible? Or do i need BIP 373 driver's?.. As you can see i've learnt many words reading through diyautotune and megamanual but it dosent make 100% snese to me which is what i'd like before i progress.. Any helps much apreciated Thanx
First of all Megasquirt is great,I'm a big fan so not trying to put you off just make you aware of the amount of time that it drains! I'm an automotive engineer and a geek and i found the amount of research required was pretty full on. Also once you're running the real work starts,hours and hours spent tuning idle and afrs and still not done months later. IMO Id say on a 1.8t just get a remap on standard ecu unless you're dead set in doing the mapping yourself. The time can be better spent elsewhere. There are loads of good tuners out there now with experience of custom mapping 1.8t builds. Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk
Also,forget knock protection on ms,its not practical without a lot of research and signal conditioning etc. Relying on knock protection that doesn't work 100%=blown engine. Again that's an advantage to the OE ECU. There's loads of folks on here with experience of 1.8ts, hopefully they'll be along soon to help :-) Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk
AEB Passat/ A4/A6 20vT The AEB Turbo engine runs an ECU from the M3.8 family (same as the VR6/VR5). On a OE installation with 150bhp and in 1995 it did the job and met the OEM's requirements. Modding it and MK1 fitment Fast forward to now and you wish to adapt this engine, because of the block's mounting points to a MK1 Golf. While the hardware can be easily adapted as it has been done before the stock 150bhp @5800rpm and 155lbft from 2-4krpm would not be suitable today. So the S3/TT/LCR turbo is added I see, which means more efficient airflow at modest pressure ratios as well the requirement for larger than stock injectors. Theoretically you have engine hardware that can now achieve 220bhp@6000rpm and 240lbft@3-4.5k. Problem is how are you going to control it. How is the demand for torque at less than WOT be realised from the engine? The ECU Bosch Motronic The software in the Bosch M 3.2 ECU can be flashed with the corresponding M3.8.3 file (from an AGU engine). The problem is, if this is a very early ECU with a PLCC 44 pin chip, most tuners tend not to want to touch it as it takes some time to prep the ECU and with an emulator even more time to get it right. Having mess about with this system on 1.8Ts and also my VR6 (M3.8.1), they can be tuned but takes time and are deemed a hassle in this age of flash port tuning. Most OE ECUs, when fitted to older chassis tend to have all the diagnostics switched off and run just as a standalone surprisingly. You will have to have the immo defeated. However with the hassle that these older units can be, most just switch the system for something that can easily deliver the engine character desired, and have universal support que a SEM. Megasquirt SEMs This ECU has been evolving over time and have spawned even plug and play units for many of the popular brands. I have been championing this type of ECU on here for a few years, due to DIY nature and as a good entry into the field of engine calibration. As a result many VW owners run these systems and many now can calibrate their own vehicles. The basic sensors to run the engine Manifold air temp (on the inlet) Engine coolant temp (on the water flange) Engine Speed (VR Sensor) Engine manifold pressure (usually the MS ECU comes with a 250kPa sensor by default) Contrary to the internet, you do not need knock sensors to deliver a pretty good calibration, however you do need to know where the knock limits are of the engine and calibrate away from it. Professionals use 'det' cans to determine that limitation is and lots of dyno time. Stay away from knock sensor kits unless you absolutely understand how these kits can determine what is knocking noise and you have a very good reason to run your engine at the det limit for maximum torque. A wideband UEGO kit can be used to feedback to the ECU for lambda targeting when mapping yourself or getting instructions over the phone. Basic output A single 4 pole coil pack that would need internal ignition amplifiers for 2 channels (I have found these to work well on 20vT engines to 330bhp). You can run 1.8T ME7.X COP however more mods will be needed to work. Not necessary on an engine with a KKK 5404 turbo. 8L S3 386cc or 440cc injectors N75 boost control solenoid. Information I have written How to Megasquirt your 20v engine which is a good place to start. Also EFIExtra.co.uk and DIYAutotune are excellent resources. Alternatives If this is all geek stuff, then do think about other alternatives that can be fitted and mapped elsewhere. Sparrow on here is the owner of DTA and can recommend turn key solutions. In addition there is Emerald and OMEX which also have ECU 1.8T options. All will control the engine hardware the same so no big deal. My two pence.
Thanx for your replies guys that looks some brilliant reading material eddie :thumb: thank you.. Will reply better later, got bummed into a further 8 hours at work n phones about to die
Thanks Eddie. As Eddie says, MS can do the job very well, there are a number of boosted VW engines on MS. Just look at what Nige, Gurds and Eddie have achieved. MS you have the time investment of getting it built and up and running. With DTA/Omex etc, you get a ready built and working ECU. I can supply a base map for a 1.8t as well. I run an S40 on my 9A turbo, making 350bhp reliably. No lambda, no knock, batch injection and wasted spark, nothing but a good map. Stealth did that. The 1.8t engines can be set up to run sequential injection and ignition as well on DTA, the wiring is pretty simple, but you will need an S60 for that. You can run COP with all our ECUs. The S40 will just run them in wasted spark mode. HTH
Had some spare time now to try digest all the info, read through the how to MS link, been through it before but think it will make abit sense when i actually get it in front of me. Been reaserching some more and learnt further fancy words i've tried to dumb down for myself, lol I like the idea of building the ECU myself although i've been offered one bassed on the MSII with no case for a good price, he said he can also supply a base map for mk1 1.8t. What kind of things denote a good ECU to a not so great ECU? He said it has 400kpa MAP and can run 5 cylinder COP or 10cylinder wasted spark.. looking at my COP plugs tho there only 3 pin which means no internl igniter so will have to run external amplyfier? can the ignition modual unit from the a4 be used? on the right.. In general been trying to suss what different spark set ups there is.. COP = one coil per plug, some have internal igniters, mine dosent having only 3 pins at COP.. Siquental spark will run all for COPs seperate, Wasted spark is running 2 COPs from one signal ignition sauce. Lambda/EGO/O2 sensor is not isentialy needed but helps when mapping, narrow band gives 'narrow' AFR range 14.7.1 and can be wired straight to ECU. Windband gives a 'wider' AFR range 10.xx -16.xx.. this is better for mapping but requires external controler which will display AFR.. N75 Boost valve, N75J is better? or would a manual boost valve be better still? keep things simpler i guess? Injectors - I have a bam maifold fitted and that should have EV6(low impedence 1.2ohm) or EV12(high impedence 12ohm) EV6 Injectors will fit EV12 inserts and visa versa? My AEB stuff is EV1 which want fit and cant swap the inserts either.. Best injectors for the job - was looking at vxr 470cc whivh will fit? but spray pateren not ideal? 440cc Green Giants are better than Green tops due to the spray pattern? dual cone? Will my AEB fuel rail fit these? and electrical plugs? 3 or 4 bar FPR - 4 bar basicaly increase duty cycle(more strain on injectors) think my AEB fuel rail has 4 bar FPR so if this can be used will it decrease the duty cycle of the 440cc? is that a problem? Side notes.. Is the GIAC chip not a done thing nowa days? had the chance of a 557p which i think is north american ecu with stage 1 GIAC chip.. i think the 557p ones dont have imobalizer as standard.. would that be plug and play forr the 557t? Jst trying to get my heard round it all abit better gathering info if i'm wrong in anything i've said feel free to point out.. Or if theres a big no no for going for the basicaly copied MSII ECU without shell.. Your DTA stuff looks the businiess Sparrow Just out of my budget me thinks.
