AGU into mk2 engine mount help!

Discussion in 'Mk2' started by Munrohuna, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. Munrohuna New Member

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    Hi, I know this has been covered many times but I need some advice concerning my engine mounts.
    After buying what I thought were the correct mounts I have found they don't fit so I have mixed and matched to get something to work.
    I am using gearbox/rear bracket 357 199 353A which seems to work with mount supplied but has no visible part no
    I re used mk2 16v kr rear engine bracket 191 199 354C on standard mk2 mount which also seems to work.
    However the front bracket 3AO 199 273 used with the standard mk2 mount makes the engine sit fully 2 inches too high at the front for the bonnet to close.
    Could you guys let me know if both my rear mounts are ok and how I can solve the front mount problem.
    Thanks
     
  2. Fray16v Forum Member

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  3. notenoughtime

    notenoughtime Moderator Moderator

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    I'm sure there is a how to on this somewhere?
     
  4. benthejettaman Forum Member

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    you need to use rear engine mount bracket 535 199 354 C which is for a corrado or passat b3 4 cylinder

    as for gearbox then if you are using a o2a or o2j box then you need to use the mounts from a mk3 golf 16v or 4 cylinder corrado/ passat (b3 or b4)
     
  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    for front you'll need corrado 4 cylinder, golf g60 or most/low spec passat b3/4 4 cylinder. gearbox from any 02a which this includes vr6 :)
     
  6. nostalgiamatt New Member

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    Does anyone know the difference between 535 199 354C and 191 199 534C
    Am I right in thinking it is longer along the red line in this pic:

    [​IMG]

    Does anyone know by how much?
     
  7. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    it is a bit longer yes but the angle may also be slightly different, no-one has posted any detailed info on the differences as of yet!
     
  8. smokeingun Forum Member

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    Before I'd did my conversion I had both rear mounts long and short one, there's about half Ince (maybe Littlemore) diffrence where the 3 holes are,sure it was same angle just little bit longer
     
  9. fife-flyer CGTI Regional Host

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    I've read so many posts about mounts and what to use and have still to understand why when it has been answered, by people that have been doing the conversion, do some folk still give the wrong answers to what mounts to use!

    Gearbox mount from the rear of an 02A/J if using that box. The front mount will need to be from an 02A/J also but NOT from a mk3 or a VR. The mk3 one sits at the wrong angle and will push the engine back. The VR one has a different way of being bolted to the bell housing and again will push the engine.

    As for the rear engine mount they all fit! It then comes down to what servo/master cylinder you will use. There are three different sizes of mount and three different sizes of servo. If you use a standard 8v servo with the 8v/16v rear mount along with a 23mm master cylinder then it will clear. If you use a 16V servo with the same master and mount it will clear but be closer as the servo is slightly deeper. The Corrado and B3/4 Passat has a larger servo again and this along with a 23mm will hit. You will then need the longer rear mount in order to clear the timing belt cover.

    Front gearbox mounts. The one on the left is what you need, the other is a mk3!

    [​IMG]

    Rear engine mounts. There is three different sizes. The one on the right is 8v/16v. The middle is a B3/4 diesel and the left is well i'll keep that one for me as its what I use with large servos!!

    [​IMG]

    :thumbup:
     
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  10. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    some extra info, the 02j mounts are totally different so non of the gear from them is any good, its got to be 02a. The brackets you want depends on the subframe and front engine carrier you fit, not just down to the engine and box.

    If you have a MK2 type subframe for the rear bracket it needs to be golf G60, 4 cylinder corrado or early/low spec passat b3/4, with 02a gearbox. If you have a MK3 Golf subframe then you need a MK3 golf or SEAT ABF or TDI rear bracket. Note the later/high spec passat b4 can also have the mk3 golf type mounts too so watch out for that.

    If you use a mk2 crossmember then the front bracket needs to come from Golf G60, or corrado/passat same as the rear bracket. If you use a Corrado VR6 or high spec/late passat/toledo front crossmember then it needs to be a mk3 golf or SEAT ABF/TDI front bracket, or later passat b4 etc.

    You can use a MK3 abf/tdi type front bracket on a mk2 crossmember with some jiggling. A bonded rubber front mount will give enough wiggle room, note as above its the wrong angle so for the long term you will want to find the correct mount but if you are desperate it will go in. just ask richard mk2 ;)
    I have a mk2 front bracket with a corrado vr6 crossmember in mine right now, and again its the wrong angle but I got it in. I need a mk3 bracket to fit it properly but right now since I wouldnt be able to drive the car otherwise I have had to make do!

    gearbox bracket any 02a type will do, regardless of the number of cylinders or car it came from
     
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  11. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Very detailed information fife flyer!
    Not discounting the other contributors though.
     
  12. fasteddie

    fasteddie Banned

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    Excellent ^^^ post Jonny :thumbup:
     
  13. fife-flyer CGTI Regional Host

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    Thanks, all the info is from experience not just what I have been told or read. The whole myth about it needs to be the G60 rear mount is rubbish. I have fitted many a mk2 8v rear mount and as long as the front gearbox mount is correct then there is no issues with it hitting the master cylinder as long as you have the right servo. As far as the front abf mount being used there has been many long winded threads on facebook with people using them and them have issues with getting them bolted in, not being able to fit them or hitting issues. The top pic I have above is a mk3 ABF bracket and the correct one that is found on a lot of models across the range. There is a simple way to fit a 20vt without complicating things and I would rather keep it as simple as possible, no need to be swapping cross members or subframes to add to the confusion!
     
  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the main thing i would worry about with using an 020 rear bracket over an 02a is it will rotate the gearbox slighty towards the front of the car, which could possibly put extra strain on the driver side driveshaft. the way i see it VW used a specific bracket for all cars with an 02a gearbox so there must be a good reason for it? It may just be for clearance I suppose but there is plenty of room to fit most 4 cylinder engines isnt there? without detailed info from VW we can only make educated guesses I suppose...

    the other thing with shorter rear bracket since the engine is rotated this will pull the front bracket out of line compared to where it woudl be standard, there is enough wiggle room as you have found out but then theres enough wiggle room to fit a front abf bracket :p

    the extra info about mk3 subframes brackets is handy for MK3 Golf owners so they know what to use without having to change the subframe. granted this thread is for mk2 golf but some may have had a mk3 subframe fitted in the past so still worth mentioning :thumbup:

    as I say you can get the mk3 abf bracket to fit on a mk2 front engine carrier but its not ideal, but its better than not being able to fit the engine at all if thats all you have to hand

    It is good to know that you can use a stock mk2 bracket though, before you and eddie everyone said it wouldnt go in at all :lol:

    If the rear bracket is just longer for clearance, that would explain why the front crossmember has so much wiggle room on the bolt holes, and VW kept this in mind right from the beginning of mk2 production :lol:
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
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  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the more I think about it now, the more I'm coming round to your way of thinking. there is so much wiggle room on a mk2 front carrier, and the driveline angle change is hardly going to be that much is it? there may be some kind of minimal distance between engine and servo/mc VW regarded as 'safe' and certain engine/servo combo would require longer rear brackets to clear...

    with the seat cupra they use the mk3 engine mounts and there is no real wiggle room on the front mount there so instead a shorter master cylinder was found outside of the usual VW parts bin...

    Edit: On a similar subject keeping the above in mind, I'd like to get hold of an early 020 mk2 bracket 191199354A, to see if its different in length to the later one 191199354C. I wonder if the 191199354C part number was brought in to clear the deeper 9" servo that was fitted to later cars...
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  16. fasteddie

    fasteddie Banned

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    from my experience not just what I have been told or read ...but the the Rub fella is always on the money :thumbup:

    The mount to go with is the 535 199 354C corrado/passat

    Just for you Jonny ...like to keep some things under my hat..engine cover etc ..look at my servo mod which is now everywhere :idea:


    This is what I did 6 years ago to make it all fit ...you know the rest mate

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
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  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Ah no I'm often wrong :lol: I do like being wrong though as it means I've learnt something :thumbup: its amazing after all these years after MK2 went in and out of production that new things are sometimes discovered [:D]

    I do love your build thread eddie in particular anythign you do with wiring makes me happy :thumbup:
     

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