Ball joint extenders (REVIEW)

Spent some time with the car on a garage ramp and experimented with the ramp jack, lifting/lowering the front of the car and watching the change in toe. Bad news is that there is toe in on bump which is undesirable as you pointed out Rob. The change was clearly visible so I didn't go to the trouble of measuring it too. I tried spacing the rod end further down but this, as expected, just made matters worse. I can't put a smaller spacer in either as this will cause the rod end to bind. Looks like I will need to lengthen the drop on the wishbone further. I think a bit of fabbing is in order now.

Thanks for the link Rob but it doesn't work as the certificate has expired.


Gurds

 

if spacing it further down made matters worse, maybe on top of the arm is the way to go? why doesn't this work?

 

with balljoint extenders and with the stock track rod end mounting you get bump toe out (depending on rideheight of course), putting the track rod end under (but too far) takes you the other side of the sweet spot and gives bump toe in.

This is my front suspension:


You can see that my lower pivot point is lowered far more than ball joint extenders do, but that my trackrod end is mounted directly against the underside of the steering arm (the arm has to be clearanced carefully to do this), this puts the trackrod end right at the sweet spot to minimise bump steer, so you can see that the sweet spot for the track rod end with balljoint extenders is 'inside' the steering arm..

 

It will if you just click continue , though your PC could blow up!!! .

Looks an interesting read.

 

ahh.....maybe the Mk1 pilots with the balljoint extenders need one of these then (snapped off a S2000 astra on Friday at Autosport show)

 

Thats some serious hub arrangement there Rob! That expensive looking tie rod end would do it......

Mr Marrows, is that a AW Tracksport setup or SSCH from the USA?

Gurds

 

This is a super-2000 hub (the up and coming rally top level) and they have to use the standard uprights - I am ussuming they dropped the lower balljoint as far as they were allowed (40mm in the regs) and ended up with a situation with bumpsterr exactly like you did, hence this rather elaborate but effective solution. Its not uncommon to see competition cars with a steering arm end both sides of the upright attachment, its stronger than a single sided attachment as well as giving this adjustment opportunity

Micky's is not the same as a SCCH drop-pin

 

So the upshot is that the balljoint extenders are too short to be of any benefit as the sweet spot for eliminating bump steer is in the middle of the knuckle somewhere?

Oh well, at least the exchange rate was 1 = $2 when I got mine!

 

Put simply, yes. BUT as far as I'm concerned the major benefit of fitting balljoint extenders is not reduction of bumpsteer but the increase in height of the front suspensions roll centre, something which it does perfectly.

We need to remember that the stock VW suspension comes from the factory with bumpsteer..

 

But not nearly as bad as when the extenders are fitted...

 

The increase or decrease in bump steer after fitting ball joint extenders is purely dependant on your ride height.

 

From the above, I think this is only a problem for Mk1s, not Mk2s?

 

not in my case, my mk2 was scary and still not perfect with max castor on my adjustable top mounts.

current spec

wide track
extenders
tie rods flipped (standard ends)
Adj top mounts (max castor)

currenty running slight toe in (experiment)for max straight line stablity but still feels snatchy over camber changes.

Any one got any ideas what to try?

after reading this i'm thinking my tie rod ends need changing for compbrake items with small washers to get the tie rod higher. and perhaps lower a bit more.

 

although the s2000 setup looks good.

 

It makes no difference mk1 or mk2.. but that said mk2's have less inherent bump steer..

 

Are you getting bump toe in or bump toe out?

Why do people opt for the compbrake ends? when Aurora rod ends fit stock VW track rods (see my photo above)

 

I got the rod ends and extenders cheap from another forum member.

Looking at the Aurora ends you have, I would probably go for them next time. The Compbrake ones I have already seem to be developing wear. [:^(] .

I reduced the bump toe in some more last night by getting rid of the last washer and fitting the rod ends right up against the hub carrier. Not perfect but better for now.
Like you said earlier, some careful clearancing of the carrier was required to eliminate bind. Very very close though.

Gurds

 

Martin: who sell the Aurora end?

 

I got mine from ABC, I can PM you the email address if you want. They're not really a retailer.. they're geared more to trade but are still very helpfull..

 

without measuring i'm not 100% but judging buy the (crap) pic i would say toe in as the ends are lower then the rack end. i can see it toe out when i jack the car up.

whats the desired angle of the tie rods? level when the cars stood still on level ground?



looking at it i think i defo need to move the ends up. what do you think?

what did you pay for your Aurora rod ends and can you pm me mateys contact details please?