All, I have got around to sorting all of the silly little things that were bugging me on the Bora. I have an ASZ pd130 in the Bora, and I have some questions just regarding tuning really. With cost effectiveness in mind. The car is in use daily at the moment, and the questions are just about obtaining the parts to build at the moment. I'm not planning to rip it to pieces, but just some questions regarding basic stuff, as this is my first experience of a diesel, and could do with some advise, to keep the engine safe whilst tuning. 1) Intercooler. Is it worth going for a front mount, or will this just make it really laggy? I don't really want to buy one "off the shelf" seems silly spending that money on this car. Are they any other cars FMIC's that I can use, that fit with relative ease? I do have Air con, which I wish to retain. I have no issue cutting up the front bumper, but still wish for it to fit! Custom pipework is not a problem. 2) Turbo - I have been reading about alot of turbo options, and I am aware that I could get buy an ARL pd150 turbo, but to be honest, for the money, I would repair it anyway. I have access to a broken pd130 turbo from a b5 passat, which I am told the turbo is part of the manifold. Is that the same as mine? Bearing in mind, i'm going to go for a hybrid, does it matter if I pick up an ASZ or ARL turbo to tinker with? 3) Injectors & Fuel pump. Are there any cost effective OE injector upgrades that will just plug in? Is it worth it? Or just grab a set pd130 injectors and have them cleaned? Fuel pump? Does this need an upgrade? 4) Brakes. What size are the standard brakes? I want to keep the stock 16" wheels really, so do I keep the current calipers and just put decent discs and pads in? Or is there anything that I can use, to give a decent size increase, whilst fitting and sitting behind the wheels? Exhaust and breathing is covered, I am all sorted with that. I don't want an "EPIC" build, but just to improve the car for fast road / track work. I can't seem to find any mild pd130 build's so thought I would post to the masses! Any help / experiences appriacited.
1) I would go for the FMIC and you can get that off a pd150 model. 2) What is your budget for the pd150 turbo? I believe that there are some variations between transverse and longitudinal engine turbos. I think the main differences is a bracket and a line. This info is available online. I don't think that it matters which one you choose if you go the hybrid route but there is a wheel difference between the two. I wouldn't go for a hybrid though. 3) You could use the pd150 injectors but is not really a cost effective option. It is worth it because they flow more than the ones you have. You could stay with yours for the moment because with your mods you are not maxing them out as of yet. Fuel pump is fine and i believe you have a lift pump as well? If you have the lift pump you don't need any mods on the fuel system. 4) I'm not sure about the stock brake size but decent pads would do the trick for now. What exhaust system do you have and what intake mods have u done?
Sorry allow me to add some advice and correct a couple of points above. PD150 FMIC involves changing the radiator and front panel as well as pipes to make it all fit. FMIC allows you to hold boost longer but in practice doesn't add any bhp. Unless you're going for over 200bhp and beyond you don't need it changed. The VNT17s aren't big enough to lag. If you have lag with that turbo you need to get the car properly remapped. Passat turbo is different fitment with a 2 piece manifold and if it's blown it's not worth fixing. The main difference in the ASZ (VA) and ARL (VB) turbos are the inlet and outlet bores, The wheel sizes are identical. I have 2 on a bench at home and I measured them. The housings can easily be bored out anyway. If you're hybriding them properly it shouldn't really matter which you go for. An average Hybrid like a 17/56 will be capable of a reliable 240bhp. The PD150 turbo is capable of a reliable 190bhp. The PD130 and PD150 injectors are identical. If you replace your own with PD150 injectors you'll just be putting the same ones in. You have a PD engine. They're running at ridiculous pressures and don't need cleaning. There is no pump that can upgrade from what you have. Your injectors can fuel about 250bhp. Do you intend to go higher than this? Stock brakes are 288mm. Just fit 312mm carriers and disks and the rest is the same on both 288mm and 312mm. Same calipers and pads. Easy upgrade and they clear most 16" wheels. Exhaust and intake don't really matter. Keep your stock filter and just get a decat to keep the egts down. That's just good practice. Upgrading them won't make a jot of difference, especially the intake.
Of course, that's why we are in the forum for. I didn't get into details about the FMIC but yes you are correct. I also agree with the fact that VNT's have almost no lag and the remap comment. Hm..now that you are saying i remembered something like titanium wheel for the VB version. If you could tell me the measurements you have i can check with mine and see where the error is. As for powerwise for the pd150 turbo i would say more like 200bhp but that depends on other things as well and it doesn't really matter. What you are saying abut the injectors made me think and i will check the matter and update the thread with the correct information. Brakes is your call What do you mean exhaust doesn't matter? As for the intake there are other mods as well rather than changing the filter but i agree that performance increase will be minor.
I've heard a lot of conflicting storys about the shafts and more recently that there's no difference in them at all which I am inclined to believe. I can check them later as I have 2 turbos split and on the bench at the minute (a PD130 VA and a PD150 VB). I measured the inlet housings and wheels and while the VB inlet on the compressor housing is a lot bigger (in turbo measurements), the wheels where the same when put on the calipers. The part number on the PD130/150 injectors are 038 130 073 AL. The MK4 ones are all the same and they're 550cc from memory. The A4 and Passat PD130 ones are smaller. I think they're about 470 but would need to look it up. In terms of bhp figures (dyno and on the road) the exhaust won't really add anything until you're going for much bigger power, like a VNT20 hybrid or 22/60. It's beneficial to have a decat to keep the EGTs down. It'll help with heatsoak a little and with the temp of the turbo and head but won't actually add any big bhp increase like you would get with a petrol.
Same as me. Check them again when you have the time so that we can get a solid final answer for this. The part number you are saying is referring to injectors and not nozzles. How about the nozzle part numbers? Maybe it won't add up to numbers but will make a lot of difference in back pressures and temps as you say. I don't know the exhaust system's design on the pd130 but for older models such as 90bhp and 110bhp versions the exhaust is a restriction if you want to up the power.
From memory ARL compressor wheel is 37mm against 35 mm ASZ. http://forum.vwgolf.pl/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=421614&p=5101528&hilit=roznice+ARL+ASZ#p5101528 As for FMIC I think it`s worth adding to keep intake temps in check
All, Thanks for this. So to just add some extra information, i'm not really chasing a figure. Although I had around the 200bhp mark in mind, with this in mind, is the stock intercooler capable of handling that? If its advised as an upgrade, what would I be looking at? Merc Sprinter? BMW 530d or something along those lines? What is a good fit for the Mk4? As well as the turbo? I have concluded that the fuel system will cope with no issues, so I wont worry about that. I'm going for a milltek exhaust, as they seem to get the best reviews and seem the best value, for a decent product. Sorry to sound totally dumb, but what carriers do I need? I know they are 312mm, but what car are they from? Is that R32 brakes? Could you help with a part number at all?
As for carriers , octavia vrs item are the one to look for. Been thinking about a brake upgrade myself. I wouldn't spend money on the exhaust if 200bhp is a target. If its same size as pd150 exhaust it's no restriction up to that power.
The intercooler will just make things a bit easier for the turbo, it won't help you make much more power. Hybridised turbo, exhaust and remap will have you on the way to the 200hp mark.
All the PD exhausts are identical. The milltek large bore downpipe with decat is much bigger. I can post pics of the 2 side by side later if you want. 312mm brakes came on 4 motions, anniversary golfs, TTs, 1.8T S3s and Octavia VRSs and a few others. We already know the compressor housing (as shown on that thread) is bigger on the VB turbo. I can measure the wheels again later for you but I'm 99.9% sure they're identical. The shafts to my eyes and measurements last night are identical but again, I'll measure them later. Be careful when comparing against european models as they're not all the same as our UK versions. In the pics in the linked thread it's an AWX turbo vs a hybrid ARL turbo. I'll post pics and measurements of the stock ASZ and stock ARL compressor housings and wheels. PD injectors are a lot different to what you're referring to as the nozzles. The units come complete, not as nozzles and bodys seperately. The PD130/150 injectors are 100% identical in every way. They're the same part. Back pressure is irrelevant in these engines as they produce their own back pressure. They don't even need any exhaust and they'll run just the same. So having a free flowing downpipe to reduce temps is a good idea. For an FMIC I have a Eurojet but the fitment is crap. I had to modify all the pipes to get it to fit and alter a few more bits too. It seems to do it's job fantastically well though.
OK here are somes pics and measurements. Apologies for my mistake above. I don't know what I was smoking when I first measured these. I even have the measurements written down that they were the same. It must have been a late shift that night. The VB impeller blades are wider than the VA. It's the overall wheel width and height that is the same so I must have mixed these up. I have the VB turbo completely split. I'll do the VA one later this evening and compare the shafts and exhaust wheels. VB on the left, VA on the right. VB with blue tape and VA without. VB on the left, VA on the right. Also, here is the difference in the standard downpipe and the milltek.
I would go with the aftermarket exhaust for more than 200bhp. The units might come complete but there are still injector bodies and nozzles. Again, the part no you said is referring to the injector body and is not relevant to the nozzles.
Thanks for all of the information chaps. I think Ill stick with the stock turbo for now, as it seems more than capable for the job of which I want it for. Im going to spend the money on the chassis (it wollows like a complete boat) and polybush the car, along with a quickshift. The carriers, Ill keep my eyes peeled, are the carriers on their own likely to come up? Is the 312mm discs going to give me significantly more braking power? Or do I stick with the 288's and stick some good quality discs pads, and fluid in? FMIC - Does anyone know of any good fitment items such as the Bmw 530d or anything similar, that will allow me to keep the a/c without cooking the car?
Ive just had a look at the Mercedes Sprinter and BMW FMIC, which can be bought new, for reasonable money. I am thinking about this, just in case I want to run more power in the future. The main problem seems to be that I have just had a poke around around the front of the car, and with the A/C and the rad, there doesn't seem to be much room for mounting, and the routing of the pipework. Is it going to be possible to retain the AC and stock Rad? Does anyone have Mk4 platform experience with this at all?
MK4 Aftermarket FMICs are all mounted below the bumper bar behind the bumper cover. I only know that one of the S3 FMICs can be made to fit or the MK5 gti FMIC but you still need to custom fit whatever one you go for. Don't poly bush everything. Powerflex rear axel bushes, R32/S3 rear wishbone bushes, R32 dogbone mount and stock for everything else. The best handling mod you can do is a rear arb. I have the neuspeed 28mm adjustable one. Good suspension always helps too. Carriers on their own rarely appear. But they're about 100 each from VW or Audi. 312mms are a lot better than the 288s but the 288s are still pretty good. Eurojet setup.
Ah thats excellent, Is that a PD FMIC kit? The reason I ask is that the Sprinter and 530d brand new are well under 100. I know off the shelf kits are far more expensive, which I don't really want to spend. Is that your car?
It's made for PD and non-PD. They all fit the same. The pipework is the biggest pain you'll have after finding a core that fits. Do some measuring before going out and buying a core. Be prepared to hack your bumper to bits if you get one that's too big. Yes it's my car. I have my FMIC well hidden now.
