front hubs with more castor

I've got both VR6 bits and 16v in my store plus the fancy uprights I got off RobT
As I've got to take the engine out I'm thinking of fitting the trick hubs anyway so what problems would I face fitting these with VR6 wishbones ?

I know what Nige is planning as he bought all the bits he needs off me yesterday but I'm willing in the name of science lol to experiment with other options as I've got all the bits already and it's not going to cost me anything to play around with these ideas
Parts list ? How to ?

 

Just one addition to that. By going Wider track through longer Wishbones & driveshafts, the Kingpin angle will be changed. It`s the angle of the line drawn from the topmount (which is fixed) and the bottom ball joint (which is moved outwards). For all intents and purposes with our use, I don`t see it making a noticeable difference, but worth clarifying that it will have a small effect on the geometry

I know this because Gurds explained it to me yesterday lol

 

Duh didn't think about castor moving the wheel forward in the arch when changing bottom specs

But if you adjust from the top turret adjustment this affects bump steer ? ( and now I'm in to deep )

I know my special 16v uprights have had the track rod arms altered to affect turn in and bump steer but I'm still trying to figure these out ( I think Sparrow and Blis among others know about this ) but not me lol

So the aim of this thread is ?
Best standard parts to improve track / race car front geometry / feel ?
What minor changes can be made to the top mounting to help ?
What changes will benefit the bottom mounting positions ?
For standard Mk2 front end set up
For wide track mk2 and mk3
So we are looking at ?
Camber
Castor
Roll centre
Bump steer
Have I missed anything and what's already be covered in other threads ? Can we correlate all the info into one track car front suspension thread ?

 

feedback both on forum and email recived is much appreciated...but know going right over my head........if only the answer was stick a such and such bit off a corrado on and you will be sorted.....guess nothing is as easy as this hay. i take my hat off to all those that like ..experimenting..
cheers

 

Have you not though of just fitting adjustable top mounts. ?

Dead easy, can add caster and / or camber without messing with your hubs etc. Might be an easier route for you.

 

Food for thought . the castor angle is simply a line drawn from the centre of the top shock pin to the lower ball joint , that lines difference to a vertical line is the Castor angle . it can be changed by moving the top back or the bottom ball joint forward . however its done . Modern cars run higher degrees of castor BUT the more the angle the stiffer the steering gets so if you don't run power steering don't go to far . Moving the top mount back does not increase bump steer . ( lowering the car too much does ) Just a little bit of advise , Castor gives more camber on the outer wheel and lessens camber on the inner wheel during turns . CAMBER is more effective on a race car because it works at slight steering angles ( faster corners, and sweeps ) castor only gives usable camber angles with bigger steering inputs.

 

all good advice there....castor is only really useful for sharp corners, chicanes etc, but is useful IMO for race cars if you have this situation so you can run less camber in general.

im not a big fan of high camber setups, it compromises traction and braking, so as little -ve as possible should be used. this is where higher castor setups come in for the occasional tight corner that can bugger your outer tyre edges up.

 

With above
I can't think of a situation where you would want more static negative camber than castor gain

Think of it this way if yo have 3 deg static and 2 deg castor then you turn the car you have a reducing amount of negative camber. Logic says if you are turning you want more, even if only to counter the change in dynamic camber from roll

Unless I was a manufacture trying to dial in some push, but they will be using positive camber anyway

 

3 degrees of static camber will only increase with castor on the out side wheel NOt reduce camber , Sorry Notso swift don't understand your point ??

 

Because the car rolls during turn by more than the camber gain, you want to counter that otherwise you have a net camber loss.
Compare the wheel and the ground, not the chassis!

 

Ok I understand what you are saying and of course the reason we run camber is to keep the outer tyre as flat to the ground as possible in turns ( When the body is rolling )
The amount of camber technically needs to increase the more body roll the car has . IE a normal suspension will allow the car to roll more than say a track set up , or capable sport kit ,. The negative of too much camber is wheel spin ( particularly off the line ) My experience is the positive of lots of camber , far out way the negatives and there fore 4 to 4.5 degrees is what we run with full race suspension and hard springs , this allows you to throw a car into the corner with confidence and it wont wash the nose . ( note with out L S D, our regs did not allow for them)
)

 

Forward is spot on.


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I use mk3 non gti wishbones with mk2 hubs etc. This pushes the ball joint forward and gives more castor. Ib needed to stay 4 stud because of brakes and wheels.

Also has advantage of pushing wheel forward which should improve wheelbase and weight distribution.

Ideally i would choose mk3 gti setup and then use wishbone extender plates to give even more castor

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Yeah sorry they are mk3 gti wishbones, and mk2 carriers. It's the driveshaft s that are mk3 td.

It's not central in the arch but I think the additional wheelbase is useful with the wider track as well.

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only photo I can put my hands on, can see the wheel sits further forward but not that noticeable. It helps that I've got adjustable top mounts as well.

 

Are these the 5 stud arms?

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/422vg0130
http://www.gsfcarparts.com/422vg0140

 

Yup [emoji106]


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