Harness mounting points and rollcage cross bars

im getting teh cage fitted this weekend I think i will ask for harness bars

this is the cage

 

I would Craig, i will be having one in mine when it's all together.

Talking of 2-1 harness that's what mine are for the track car :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/fthaimike/Track%20Car/DCP_6552s.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/fthaimike/Track%20Car/DCP_6550s.jpg

 

should have some new pics soon

 

Thing is, people have mounted harnesses to eyelets screwed into the bottom of rear belt mounting points at the back of rear seat bases for ages.

This becoming a no-no?

 

Just thought that if your fitting a cage Chris you may as well just add an extra bar while your at it.

 

I suppose it`s about how technically correct one wants to be and how one considers the safety implications.

- Is a harness using these original points better than a lap and diagonal ? -

Before I had my cage I used the rear points knowing that they were not ideal as the Willans instructions recommend differently. However, I considered that I was safer with the harness than with the lap and diagonal and passed scruitineering for hillclimbs & sprints every time.

 

I took my car down to the fitters today with an idea of what I wanted (cheers Chris)

He recomended this way which is what I was going to ask for but he will need to weld the harness bars as per the bottom pic

 

Bottom pic Craig is i think what me & Geezer are going for but i think with one diagonal (not an X).

 

That harness bar is rather high ... any particular reason ?

 

Does look a little bit high

 

the clubman set up is ok, so long as you have a good seat! if you have a all steel seat, ie FIA spec then it will take a conserable amount of force to crush it, and ifyou have had an impact that big, well you not walking out really.

as for are harnesses any better, well talking to my mum who works at the hospital and knows the coroner he has said in passing to her that the big problem with harnesses is that there is no give in them, so where as on a normal set up there are inertia locks and on monden cars pre-tensioners with load limiters (normally 15KN force just to be nerdy ) which allow a reliative slow de-cel, harnesses dont pay-out the webbing in a crash, (know as camera spooling) and so you internals keep moving when the body suddenly stops and you get internal injuries.

just some food for thought there.

 

its in the the "prefered" section of these diagrams ?

 

Looks a lot better than some i have seen, looking again i think it's the camera angle.

 

Interesting info, especially the reminder about my `internals` ...

Regarding the harness mountings, I`ve tended to follow my harness manufacturer who differ slightly from that FIA drawing.

 

I can't remember where I read it but I don't think that is 100% true. Harnesses are designed to give a "small" amount of give in them to absorb some energy. But nowhere near as much as a regular 3 point belt.

The article I read was regarding replacing harnesses after a big shunt. Apparently they stretch and don't return to normal, so should be replaced.

 

^^ Agree with that. Racers will tell tales of slack harnesses - even worse.

 

Just out of interest, do any of you lot use harness pads?

I have 2" harnesses and I was thinking in the event of a crash there would be a lot of force spread over a small area.

 

There will always be some slack after a crash as the webbing streches a little, but not much compared to a 3 point with its load limiters etc.

On the slack harnesses, anyone whos ever been in the gti with me will know how anal i am that the belts must be tight! even if we spend 10mins before leaving getting theirs right, with slack belts there is a higher chance of submaring, i have seen people with the buckle on their stomach before! this is waaayyy to high, it should sit across your lap area to reduce the chance of sliding under (a guy from volvo was yelling me there were doing lots of tests on this with 4 points and 5 and 6 points, and they were still getting some submaring with 4 points even with anti submarine seats like mine. he advised me to fit the 5 point to be on the safe side.)

on the harneses pads, I dont have any but I use 3" spec lap and shoulder belts, and with the pads its uncomfortable and gets in the way.

being on 2" harnesses do you have a lap spreader built in? as this would be advisable. for the shoulders, with 2" this is stock webbing size for 3 points so any car accessory shop pads will fit, hell you can buy 5 ones or so from tescos to try them, if they are a pain youve only lost a fiver.