Ibiza Cupra Sport rally project....CODENAME PROJECT: CHAV

Yeh, what I thought to be fair....and well worth it after experiencing the supposedly 'OEM' KS version

 

Volkswagen sells the entire assembly with the pickup attached to the pump for the ABF. That assembly is obsolete or NLA.

However you confirmed on your build, the later '058' 20v part can be substituted The 058 part has had a an update in 2014 as well.

 

To keep sustained bearing durability you are doing the right then buy shelling out for the new pump. Frequent oil changes will keep it almost in new condition.

However, I can say from running these NASP engines over extended mileage, the pictures you put up of the pump are typical for most of them that have done 100k+ miles.

I run one in a similar condition and the engine will happily peg at 5 bar over 2500rpm and 3.5 bar at 1100rpm and 110+ deg C. With higher cruise and max revs, a few track days and bearing wear getting closer to max tolerance, I do expect those observations to deteriorate into to lower peak pressures.
I do monitor though.

 

If we were discussing a less critical component in a normal road car then I would definitely agree with you and just bung in the old used pump. But because the engine is going in a car that is pretty much solely used for competition and will get abuse, plus I have very little prior knowledge of how well the engine has been maintained it seems prudent to fit a new pump in my eyes (It is the last piece of the jigsaw after all)

Also, I'm a tight ****.....I don't like spending money, and if it's a choice between bunging a new pump in the build to 'sustain bearing durability' (great expression by the way) or risking the whole build going pear shaped further down the line I prefer the idea of a slight insurance policy (the pump) now. Then as you say, use good oil frequently and look after the whole setup and It should out live me and maybe still be fighting fit for when my son fancies a bash at motorsport.....although I've got another car for him already (he is only 18 months!)

All advice is much appreciated by the way. It's a shame this rebuild has taken so long, but life sometimes gets in the way and I have busied myself with navigating over the past year and was crowned ANWCC Novice Road Rally Navigator 2016, so I have been keeping my eye in......just want the wheel back in front of me now rather than a map and potti (not the baby kind).

More progress, photo's and orange still to come..............

 

Except my comments on pump durability come from carefully observing my own car (road and track), over extended mileage or hours of operation after detailed engine inspections. My car also runs an ABF powertrain that is far from stock, built for durability.
I put that experience here for the general readers of this thread as no one tends to carefully observe these components or reports their findings on them in public. I was not being general.

On your other point, my opening comments on post 83 supports the use of a new pump on the basis this is a competition vehicle regardless, as I do not know the history of the said engine. It is the responsible thing to do.
I maintain a racing junior kart for my son and I take the same approach. Sometimes I bin what could be good components if I have the slightest doubt they can cause disruption in a race. I do experiment afterwards to find out if that was the right choice though to root out assumption and unnecessary expense.

Pump aside, your bearings are an area to double check for appropriate clearance. They also take quite a pounding in the conrod especially. As an extra precaution, I would suggest bearings that are less resistant to deformation. Some sort of heavy duty bearing. I would discuss that requirement with a specialist directly and take it from there.

 

Talking of oil pumps................

I bought a Kolbenschmidt oil pump off ebay a while back to fit to the engine build. I chose KS as they are an OEM manufacturer (if you believe everything on tinterweb) and do genuinely seem like a pukka brand.

So what did I find?

It wasn't worth the sixty odd quid that is for sure. Upon arrival all seemed well, with the box looking genuine with nice holograms etc so I thought all was ok.....silly me! Box opened and the packaging inside was none existent and looked naff.....not as naff as the casting though.





I gave the pump a good once over, giving the drive shaft a good wiggle showed considerable movement and the whole mechanism didn't quite feel right.....felt really cheap and nasty. Further investigation was needed so I opened up the pump to have a look inside. The first thing I noticed was the poor quality threads holding the two halves of the pump together (4). Not a brilliant photo I'm afraid, but believe me they were poles apart from the VAG one I'm comparing it to. Dodgy threads led to the discovery of dodgy casting shenanigans inside with a piece of excess material approx. 4mm x 4mm (7 & 8) sat waiting to drop off and throw a spanner in the works. This surely should have been removed during final finishing......assuming that even happens?

So with me thinking 'this pump is rubbish' I thought a more scientific approach was needed otherwise you will all say that who cares if it looks rubbish, if the tolerances are to spec use it you fool!!!!!!

Backlash was measured at 0.16mm with a brand new pump expected to measure nearer 0.05mm with a maximum amount of 'slack' @ 0.2mm (so we were already getting there!).

Axial movement was measured at 0.08mm (max allowed 0.15mm)


I then compared these values to those of the two used VAG pumps I have remeasured.

Pump 1 is out of my original engine which I discovered to not be the original to the car as it's a VW motor - Backlash @ 0.13mm Axial @ 0.06mm

Pump 2 is out of a genuine SEAT engine I bought as a spare and is the block and head I have used in the rebuild - Backlash @ 0.16mm Axial @ 0.06mm


Both VAG pumps (and the KS one for that matter) I have are within tolerance, but the point i'm trying to make is the worry that a brand spanking (apparently German made?) new pump has more slack and movement in it than used VAG pumps that have seen 100K+ miles through them.....and one (my pump 1) could have had many more as it really is an unknown that was fitted with 'who knows' mileage, and has been used for Hill climbs, Sprints, and more recently by me for rallying.

Yes I have been told before that VAG pumps are solid and don't wear out, but that isn't the point i'm trying to make.....I just wanted to share my finding before anyone buys one of these pumps expecting it to be a cheap saviour - it ain't.

 

Very good points made in your post. Too many parts are replaced *just because*. Always worth checking.

 

You'd just expect that a new pump would be right wouldn't you? It just felt wrong when I was handling it, hence the measuring.

 

Through analysis.
Just the sort of informative post I expect on ClubGTI.

Thanks for taking time to share!

 

Could the part be counterfeit?
Big business these days, I got caught on a Bosch 044 from a "reputable" supplier (grey importer but good name and been around for 40 years) They gave me my money but comments from the sales guy made it seem they were also caught. (Still sold it to me - so no sympathy)

 

Quite possibly yes, and it is something that I definitely suspect.

The box was super convincing though and does match boxes that 'genuine' pumps are supplied in (I've been geeking out researching this!)

I didn't show it in the photo montage, but the body of the KS pump I bought did have KS laser etched into the body......seems a lot of effort for a hooky product. But then you look at the casting which was shocking, and then the 'feel' of the gears inside just didn't seem right.....so my only conclusion was it was indeed fake.

I've included the ebay link below for you all to have a look at. Yes the pump was much much cheaper than a KS one available from Germany (as an example) so I did think to myself that it might have been too good to be true.....and sure enough it was.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-GOLF-3...446858?hash=item27c85fcfca:g:KRIAAOSwQItUKXE5

 

More updates...........

It's an odd one. I'm not usually the sort of person that likes shiny engine bays or perfect paint or any of that prettiness...I'm into rallying, I like the smell of hot mud on an exhaust (smells great by the way!), and i'm well used to clearing off enough mud to grow pot plants...............





I just don't like clean stuff......or so I thought!

The engine (more of that to come in future posts) started the ball rolling and things just snowballed from there (hence the Jaffa calipers!!!!). In my eyes there seemed little point having a new engine that is all new looking, and putting it in an engine bay that looked a mess. So with the engine tucked away safely at the other end of the garage, I set about removing any unwanted rust from the engine bay and generally cleaning things up a bit.





Please don't think this is going to be a show pony or a concourse car....IT AIN'T!!!!! It will be used for rallying again, it will get thrashed, and it will get mud spread all over my hard graft......but I will at least know that the rust won't be chewing its way through any critical components and that there is a solid car underneath me if all goes a bit wrong.

I also turned my attention to the front sub-frame. Again the usual process of rust removal was the first port of call and I was pleasantly surprised at the condition of the frame. Once stripped of rust and coating, I decided to seam weld it. I'm not sure if it was really necessary, but now was the best time to do it if I was ever going to do it so I thought why not. It may not add any huge advantage, it may not make the car handle any better, but I did figure that it could prolong the frame seeing as the car does take a bit of a beating. I also removed the 'fork' shaped bracket from the sub-frame that usually has a metal block bolted to it that makes bolting the O/S inner CV joint a PITA. The block was removed a good while back, and I never noticed any difference to the car so i'm assuming it is something added by VAG to dampen a vibration or something like that. Either way, like others seem to do, I removed it and figured the bracket was now redundant so it got the chop to give me a bit more room around the inner joints. This is where everyone falls about laughing because I've removed a key component.....oh well!!!!!?????

 

On the subject of 'stuff' up front............


The wishbones......They looked a bit rough and well used, but seeing as they some how are super straight and fairly solid I first gave them a liberal coat of paint stripper (some nasty stuff with dichloromethane (or however you spell it!!!) in it) to check below the crud, and amazingly there was metal there!!!!

Bushes removed after a bit of screwdriver juggling, the arms had a date with the blast cabinet in work to remove any rust that was not being ejected by the 'wire wheel on drill' method. Next up was a visit with the MIG and some more seam stitching - again i'm not convinced this was really necessary, but it all adds to the BS bragging rights on the build up to a rally with the macho posturing and talking rubbish before the first time main time control......."I've got bla bla bla don't you know"......."My wishbones and subframes are seam welded.....therefore i'm better than you......bla bla bla".........you know, that kind of BS!!!!!! It's the same sort of BS when folk start quoting BHP figures......BORING!!!!!





Stripped, stitched and painted, I used a home brewed press thingy to refit the large 'rear' bushes that I always find impossible to do with just a vice. It should be easy, but the bush always flips or flops out of true and just ends up getting distorted, so I thought a length of M12 bar, 2 nuts and washers, a scrap bit of square tube (ignore the tabs welded on) and a turned wooden (Beech if you are interested) bung to keep the bush straight (ish) would make life a bit easier.....It did.

You might be asking why I've not gone for the 'Black' series bushes or any fancy rose joints or many, many other options - answer is, I had the purple Powerflex bushes already fitted and feel they offer enough stability for the current application so seemed daft to fix something that ain't broke.......just yet anyway


Wishbones sorted, now to finish the subframe...............

In primer, the frame had a liberal coating of some Lechler 1K black - I paint components rather than powder coat as its A) Cheaper and B) there is no point having beautifully finished components that then get battered on a rally and chips the finish. With paint I can touch it up if i'm really that bothered, which isn't so simple with powder coating.

Standard ARB's are ditched as I picked up a pair of Eibach ones from Jon Olds (thanks again Jon) a good while back. I can't remember how much I paid, but i'm certain they were a fair bit cheaper than the RRP. They needed freshening up a bit, so a tickle with the powerfile removed any rust and sketchy powder coating and you'll never guess what colour they now are.........





ORANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fitted with the supplied red poly bushes, it'll be interesting to see what difference they make compared to the old VAG ones that seemed to be stuck in their bushes thanks to 19 years of rust and didn't really rotate......these new ones should at least act like ARB's rather than a torsion bar.

All captive threads in the body were chased out in preparation for the sub frame. The old bolts holding the frame in had seen better days with two of them having badly damaged threads. I learnt that these are actually 'one use' bolts so should be replaced anyway - hands up who actually replaces them every time??? No, didn't think so. Amazes me that bolts of this 'chunkiness' are stretch single use items....perhaps it's down to them being quite a fine thread? Either way, mine looked pants so a full set of new genuine jobbies were purchased from VW Heritage for not a massive sum as I figure it better to be safe with a slightly lighter wallet, than sorry with a bolt that fails or damages the captive thread.

Sub frame with rack, ARB and wishbones all installed.....finally seem to be making progress.


Next up was a bracket on the O/S chassis leg. The bracket in question is where the front cross member bolts to and when I was cleaning things up I noticed it looked a bit scabby and even when i'd cleaned around it (hence the grey primer) I still wasn't happy with how it looked so decided to remove it a make sure all was well behind.





1&2 - Drilling out the spot welds ensures you end up with a 'proper job' and also allows you to realign the bracket properly when you come to refit. I didn't have a large spot weld bit, but had plenty of standard 10mm bits lying around (never throw anything away!) so after a dressing and reshaping with an angle grinder I had myself a suitable tool.

3&4 - As I thought. Not bad rot as such, but enough to warrant the bracket removing before things got too bad and we'd end up with rust holding the front cross member on. Considering the sump guard bolts to the cross member and then on to these brackets it was a worth while exercise.

5&6 - Bracket media blasted to remove all rot and then etch primed. The chassis leg was cleaned up with an angle grinder and powerfile then given a coating of a zinc rich weld through primer. You might be able to make out a slight crease in the leg - obviously the car has had a bump at some point in it's life which I kind of expected to see as the mounting plate on the front of the leg has deformed a bit. Everything measures the same from side to side so i'm assuming it was either fixed properly or was just a minor bump. It's a rally car so these things are not a massive issue.

7&8 - Bracket lined up with the drill holes and after careful clamping with a few other funny looking clamps the holes where then plug welded and then linished back to give an almost OEM look. I decided to add a could of seam welds on the inside edges to add a bit of strength (sump guard remember) and then rather than allow water ingress again, I put a load of seam sealer around the bracket to protect it. Yes it's now not a true OEM finish, but once covered in mud no one will see. All painted with the lurid Kiwi hue it's starting to come together now.

 

That is quite a freshen up! Looks very very good to me.

What is this Lechler paint? I generally find hammerite smooth chips too easily.

I replace the subframe bolts! Did so on my Corrado when replacing control arm bushes.

 

Following.
Loving the detail

 

Yeh, Hammerite is no good anymore. It used to cover a multitude of sins and last, but I hate using it anymore as it's just a waste of time.

The Lechler stuff........from what I can remember it's an Acrylic based paint and it's a matt finish (although more satin in reality)....that's about it i'm afraid......I'll get the exact details when I get home.

If i'm being 100% truthful, I've not used the best primers and used up stuff I had in the garage from previous painting exploits. I really wanted to get some Lechler Epoxy primer on as people rave about the stuff - unfortunately haste took over so I used what I had as I wanted to crack on. It's come out ok but there are bits that I have knocked and I noticed the bond to the metal hasn't been the best.....but at least the MOT guy will be impressed!!!! The orange (gloss) is the same stuff, and I let a bit of it dry off in a tub and then ripped the tub apart to have a look at the dried out paint 'disc'. It's really tough stuff that resists any efforts from me to give it some 'stick' as they say!!!! I think with some better priming on my part the whole job would have been considerably more durable.......you live and learn.

Impressed the bolt change actually happens.....I've never even thought to change them in the past but I'm glad someone on a Faceache page put me right as it's a better job all round this way

 

Cheers.

Plenty more to come as I have barely scratched the surface....wait 'til you see the engine

 

I will be keeping my eyes peeled!

 

Looks like a Chav Mobile to me now! No more late night Supermarket and school car parks starts for you now, you'll have to attend the Seat Owner club meetings on Sunday mornings and put mirrors under your sump from now on!! Lol.

Looking good, be careful or you'll be too scared to get it wet!!

It is nice to tidy things up and make sure its all to spec, reliability is so important. You see so many competition cars that clearly have no hope of getting to the end, or often to the start!, of an event and you wonder why waste all that time and spend all that money (in the wrong places) when its clear its going to fall to bits way before the end.

I'm just finishing (he says optimistically!) my Mk2 Golf road Rally cars spring build, and spec'd it all up to stage rally spec. The amount of mud that I found was amazing, its everywhere. I started cleaning it all up then though 'sod this', I've no real interest in body work so just washed, welded where required and painted over everything Lol. Even the Scrutineers now say I need it re log booked to pink not red :0 The engines spotless though, inside and out

Oil pump info is interesting. I picked up a few from Eurocarparts (I think), they were on sale at about 13.00 ea, yes 13.00, really just to see what they were like and see if maybe I could use some parts off of them.... however they were fine, quality was good, all measured up ok, I was amazed. I've used a few now on race engines.

 

Ha ha ha..........CHAV MOBILE............cheers!!!! LOL I'm off to my local McDonalds carpark to do some handbrake turns and impress some yoof's.

It certainly wasn't my intention to wander down the 'show' scene vibe on this freshen up!!!! You can rest assured that I have no intention on touching the external paintwork (for now ) and it shall remain in it's fifty shades of Kiwi livery......will look even worse when I put the composite bonnet on as that is bright Kiwi rather than the faded milky Kiwi on the wings!!!!!

I will also most definitely be using the car for what it is intended for so it will be covered in mud before the end of the year. I think I'm just all too aware that is a car looks right, it usually is right and if I build something I want to do it to the best of my ability rather than just throw an engine into a car that is starting to become a bit tired. It didn't help that my pride and joy of a mini ended up super bent a year or so ago, so this over the top Chav mobile build is probably a hangover from that car.....essentially I want another neat car that is just 'right'.

I might be going OTT on the detailing (something I have never done previously!) but when you look at a works car (no i'm not saying this is anywhere near that standard before anyone points a finger at me) they are presented beautifully and are incredible pieces of engineering and preparation to look at......I suppose I want similar but something that an average Joe can achieve at home with basic facilities.

I've also been on the receiving end of less than well prepped cars.......I've navigated in several cars that fall apart or cry enough on events. Some of them on first competitive sections which just screams PPP (**** Poor Preparation). I don't mind doing events and retiring due to damage or a crash or something a bit out of the ordinary, but to retire due to the car not being right at the start is too much for me to take.....no excuse in my book.

Hopefully that explains my approach.