Injector Flow Rate? (MK3 16v) Megasquirt

hello... wonder if anyone can help me out here...

I need to know the flow rate (cc/m) for standard MK3 2.0 16v injectors (ABF engine).

I have tried a google search but this hasn't bought anything up...

Its so i can fine tune my megasquirt, in case you're wondering.
Edited by: StefanVW

 

good for approx 180hp I was told

Cheers

Rob

 

They are around 220-240cc/min. I posted this info on here a while ago with an explanation.

I am currently using 240cc/min on my megasquirted 9a using the ABF manifold and fuel rail. It works fine with this setting.

Interestingly 240cc/min is the spec of G60 injectors. So should be good for around 200bhp on a N/A engine?

There are also primera injectors of the same style as the ABF ones with higher flow available.

 

Try this for info on flow rates etc with Bosch part numbers.


http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm


MG

 

fantastic!!!

Cerberii, could i ask a massive favour? Was gonna send a PM but this may be useful to others...

Could you send me a screen grab of your constants and enrichments pages as well as your VE table?

I've pretty much got exactly the same setup as you... 2.0 16v (9A) with ABF inlet, injectors and t/body... I'm using the old 9A idle valve wire up to the idle switch on the t/body and the engine idles perfectly at 800-900rpm. But if i try to open the throttle it stutters and farts all over the place... and is basically undrivable. Still have the coil, dizzy and old ecu to take care of the spark.

Thanks a lot for the replies guys...

 

also... forgot to ask...

the injectors are wired in parallel to one injector bank right?

 

I don't have my laptop here to do the screen grabs but i can give you the settings off the top of my head.

Engine Spec: 9a with KR cams, ABF manifold/Fuel rail and magnex 4 branch manifold/system. KR spark ecu. Megasquirt and Techedge WBO2.

I am running the MSnS-extra code fuel only. My req fuel is set to 13.9. Running two squirts alternating. IIRC the rest of the settings on that page are as per the manual i.e. Current limit 100% etc.

I have accel and decel enrichment turned off for tuning. Using the WBlin output from my techedge WBO2 meter and so switch point is set at 2.85.

Warm up enrichments still need to be tuned and are all over the place. It warms up fine but the mixture is not very consistent during warmup.

Apart from that I think all the other settings are pretty much default.

I used Martyn16v's posted fuel map as a starting point. You can find this in the engine FAQs. I have since tweaked the high and low load areas and the idle but found it to be very close in the midrange and very driveable.

My idle has been a bit of a hassle. Not helped by my wiring up the idle switch wrong . I have also had a problem with heat soak on my air temp sensor (i am using a standard head water temp sensor for the air temp - cheap and i had the resistance values!). I have now insulated the air temp sensor and things are better. I have the idle area on the map set to 56% ve and am getting around 13:1 AFR. It still hunts occasionally when sitting in traffic.

I am also sharing my coolant sensor with the spark ecu. What sensors are you using?

Are you using a KR or the 9a spark ecu?

I will try to remember and take some screenshots and send them to you.

Gavin

P.S. I will be interested to hear how your throttle response feels! When i open the throttle more than about 15% the Manifold pressure shoots to max and it feels like the non existent turbo has just kicked in .

 

brilliant!! (runs outside like a kid with a new toy!)

I also just realised i've had the injector settings all set up for low impedance injectors (hope i haven't fried them

I have all my injectors in parallel wired to one injector bank 1 with 4 simultaneous injections per cycle... perhaps i should wire 1 and 3 together and 2 and 4 together?

I'm also going to upgrade the firmware because I'm still on the 8x8 tables which is a bit of a pain .

o2 sensor is narrowband heated type (bad i know) but a mate has offered to let me use his WB so i can get a decent map...after which i can put the NB back.

as for sensors...

I was told the brown sensors on the 9A head aren't much good so i bought the blue one and i have added it on a water hose on the side of the head. This reads fine. The air temp sensor is a cossie one... but this has given me grief...getting correct readings has been a nightmare... measured resistance at room temp, freezing and boiling temps and used easytherm to update the ecu... still reads too cold

Using the 9A motronic ecu (KE-Jet)

as for the power when you open the throttle... its due to that 3" throttle body... its very harsh...unlike the mk2 one with two butterflies, this one gives full power from the start.

 

(that was before i fitted the idle valve)

Got to go take the gearbox off now as i think i broke the pressure plate yesterday

 

...so pretty much all of it then?

 

Doesn't leave much does it!
Still some of your values kicking around in there though. It was a big help having your map to fall back to knowing that it drove ok on it.

I have my injectors wired in two batches based on the firing order. Can not remember off the top of my head which ones are connected.

The 3" throttle body certainly makes my car "entertaining" in the damp (especially with my strange camber setup and rapidly balding tyres!). I have not driven a mk3 16v to compare but I am fairly certain that VW would not have sent them out of the factory like this. I think that the mk3 maybe uses the ISV to fill in for the throttle valve a bit? I considered trying the PWM idle control on the extra code but I think I am getting used to it now. My girlfriend is scared sh**less of driving it now which is not such a bad thing either

What angle of elbow did you get for the throttle body and how much clearance do you have to the timing belt? I am currently using the original boot which is actually quite a neat fit on the circular body. I intend to neaten up the air intake soon though moving the filter closer to the front of the bay and would quite like to use a 3" pipe.

 

I have my injectors wired with 1 and 2 on one bank, and 3 and 4 on the other. Running 2 squirts alternating to keep the idle pulsewidths up a bit.

I've not got a big kick off-idle with the twin butterfly tb, but mine doesn't half come 'on cam' at about 3500-4000rpm. Guess I really need to look at tuning that out a bit, but it's quite fun. Should be interesting if I ever get round to fitting the GSXR bodies

 

cool i think its time to rewire my injectors then....

as for the silicone elbow... its 76mm (3") 90 degree bend...(about 30 from Burton Power). When you buy it it is quite long on each side and you cut it to size. By leaving the TB side longer it will be enough to clear the timing belt pulley... mine clears by 5mm.

i was hoping to have a play about with the MS today... but spent all day trying to fix my gearbox...

 

well car is on the road again and upgraded to the MSnS firmware... runs a lot better and its drivable for a change...

Got to do more tweaking today as it seems to be running a little too rich in the low revs...

 

Updates so far....

Well i tweaked the Req_Fuel settings and changed the AFR to 16:5:1 and now the car doesn't run so rich...but still very rich (if that makes sense )

Pulls well all the way to 7.5k rpm expelling a lovely cocktail of black and blue smoke (my valve stems need doing )

Just gotta make it run a little leaner cos i'm only seeing about 15mpg right now....no matter how easy I take it...
Edited by: StefanVW

 

What is your EGO Limit % (or controller authority % in latest versions) set to? If it's not high enough and your VE table is too far off it won't be able to adjust the fuelling all the way to your target AFR.

I've also been working on tuning for economy in the last couple of days, been going for little cruises up and down the motorway to try and get decent MPG there. Thing is i'm a little unsure as to how lean you can safely go at motorway speeds, I know cruising at 60 is still pretty much 'low load', but what about 70? 80? 90? The MAP sits at about 50-60kPa cruising all the way up to 90, but I can't see running at 15-16:1 being any good for the engine

 

I have just the same question... I really can't tell the crossover point between "cruising" and "full throttle"... Probably by pressure? I would consider "cruising" Isupposea throttle opening that keeps the speed stable on a straight line before the max torque point (for NA!), or before the midway between max torque and max power. Does that even make sense?


StefanVW what fuel rail are you using? I didn't even know there was one that fits under our intake mani!

 

Martyn...need to go plug the laptop in again to check the EGO %... but i have a feeling this is to blame because the car pulls smoothly accross the whole map but even the external AFR Guage shows rich all the time while accelerating (drops to normal/lean) when I let off the gas).... and even when the car is idling....the A/F Guage sits at rich.

Quasar... I have a MK3 (ABF) inlet manifold with the original injectors and built in fuel rail. I swapped it over when i got rid of the k-jet.
Edited by: StefanVW

 

I have now have now acheived 30mpg on the current tank full. I think there is more economy in there however as my tracking/camber are still off and I have been giving it a fair bit of stick .

I have basically tuned the idle to 13:1, cruise (everything from idle to 3500 rpm (ish) and less than 60kpa) to 16:1 and acceleration/load to 12.6:1. For the low load (<60kpa) higher rpm area I have the afr graduating down to stoich. This is not very scientific but seems to work. I started tuning the higher cruise speeds (70mph) with target afr of 15:1 then worked up slowly whilst checking for trouble.

The car is driving really well on this and I have noticed no worrying signs from the engine such as pinking/surge/increasing temperatures.

Hope this helps.

Gavin

 

Sounds about the same as what i've been doing, which is reassuring. I think i'm just being a bit paranoid, the engine sounds and runs quite happily cruising at 80/90ish mph at 15:1, but i've got it in my head that that is just too lean.

Next up is tuning the accel enrichments. The car is actually quite driveable with them turned off, it only really stumbles when changing hard from 1st to 2nd. Should be easy to tune with the new accel wizard in 024s9