k04 Hybrid for 210/225 owners, LCR/TT/S3 etc-Now achieved 344bhp!302lbft with XS Mani

Discussion in 'Badger5' started by badger5, Mar 27, 2010.

Page 3 of 3
  1. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    Code:
    Saturday	23	October	2010	17:48:48:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1	Data version: 20100831									
8L0 906 018 N		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'118			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	KW	KW	KW	KW	STAMP	 /min	C	 %	 mbar

	47.93	1360	75.2	4.92	21.78	48.23	0	0	0	0	48.53	1400	27	95.3	1040
	48.83	1440	82	5.33	23.17	49.13	0	0	0	0	49.43	1640	24	95.3	1100
	49.73	1760	87.2	5.74	28.94	50.03	0	0	0	0	50.33	2040	23	95.3	1190
	50.63	2200	106.8	6.97	45.83	50.93	0	0	0	0	51.23	2440	21	95.3	1370
	51.53	2560	122.6	7.79	62.06	51.84	0	0	0	0	52.14	2800	21	95.3	1670
	52.44	2920	171.4	12.3	102.92	52.73	0	0	0	0	53.04	3240	21	77.6	2370
	53.34	3440	191.7	15.58	141.31	53.64	0	0	0	0	53.93	3680	21	81.6	2500
	54.24	3840	191.7	16.81	154.53	54.53	0	0	0	3	54.84	4120	20	83.5	2510
	55.14	4280	191.7	16.81	179.42	55.44	3	0	0	3	55.74	4560	21	82.7	2530
	56.04	4720	191.7	17.22	198.17	56.34	3	0	0	3	56.64	5000	21	83.9	2520
	56.94	5160	191.7	17.63	222.33	57.24	2.3	0	0	2.3	57.54	5440	21	85.5	2500
	57.84	5520	191.7	18.04	236.33	58.14	2.3	0	0	2.3	58.44	5760	23	89.4	2450
	58.74	5840	191.7	17.22	243.58	59.04	2.3	0	0	2.3	59.34	6040	24	95.3	2430
	59.64	6080	191.7	16.81	246.5	59.94	1.5	0	0	1.5	60.24	6240	25	95.3	2420
	60.54	6320	191.7	16.81	247.31	60.84	1.5	0	0	1.5	61.14	6480	27	95.3	2400
	61.44	6560	191.7	16.4	251.61	61.74	1.5	0	0	1.5	62.04	6760	28	95.3	2360
	62.34	6840	191.7	15.58	253.64	62.64	1.5	0	0	0.8	62.94	7040	30	95.3	2340
	63.24	7160	186.5	14.76	254.83	63.54	0.8	0	0	0.8	63.84	7360	31	95.3	2300
	64.14	7480	178.2	13.94	252.33	64.44	0.8	0	0	0.8	64.73	7240	32	0	1750
    last but one dyno run/log
     
    badger5, Oct 24, 2010
    #41
  2. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    Hi
    Also beign worked on in conjunction with the hybrid is a full bore 3" TIP to go on K04's
    example prototype below
    comparison of std tip and 3inch jobbie
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Comprising the adaptor to keep the bends as compact as possible
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    okies.. been busy welding tonight and stuff..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    not tried it on a car yet... maybe over the weekend, sunday perhaps
     
    badger5, Oct 29, 2010
    #42
  3. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    3 inch tip installed this afternoon..
    some nice results

    well.. hmmm.
    erm

    you know... erm.. when thing dont quite go as expected...
    screened maf's descreened maf's flow more.. and all that jazz... and the extra power...

    Or Not..

    3" TIP fitted to wellys s3
    comparison run to last time on dyno. differences being 3 inch tip, some tweaks to add more fuel to go with more airflow, and reverting to screen maf and....

    well....
    hmm....

    was'nt expecting this result...













    [​IMG]

    :thumbup:

    3inch tip airflow, descreen maf
    272g/s max logged compared to before 3 inch tip where max was 254g/s, however on this car (non wideband) the apparent airflow and change to afr's made a difference. Clearly more airflow as it ran leaner.. added 5% fuel and it returned to as before, making slightly more power.

    New 3 Inch TIP log
    Code:
    Sunday	31	October	2010	17:27:07:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1	Data version: 20100831									
8L0 906 018 N		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													
															
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'118			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				

	31.78	3200	191.7	15.99	138.72	32.08	0	0	0	3	31.49	3040	21	95.3	1880
	32.69	3720	191.7	16.81	145.36	32.98	3	3	0	2.3	32.39	3560	21	82.7	2490
	33.59	4160	191.7	17.63	181.69	33.89	3	3	0	2.3	33.29	3960	20	85.5	2540
	34.49	4640	191.7	18.04	207.72	34.79	3	2.3	0	4.5	34.19	4480	19	82.4	2540
	35.39	5120	191.7	18.04	228	35.69	2.3	2.3	0	4.5	35.09	4920	19	83.1	2540
	36.29	5520	191.7	18.45	247.61	36.59	2.3	5.3	0	3.8	35.99	5360	20	83.9	2540
	37.19	5720	191.7	18.45	257.5	37.49	2.3	5.3	0	3.8	36.89	5680	21	87.1	2520
	38.09	5960	191.7	18.45	258.36	38.39	2.3	5.3	0	3.8	37.79	5880	22	92.2	2520
	38.99	6200	191.7	18.45	259.67	39.29	2.3	4.5	0	3	38.69	6120	24	95.3	2500
	39.89	6480	191.7	18.45	265.94	40.19	2.3	4.5	0	3	39.59	6360	24	95.3	2490
	40.79	6760	191.7	17.22	266.39	41.09	1.5	4.5	0	3	40.49	6640	26	95.3	2470
	41.69	7040	191.7	16.81	270.44	41.99	1.5	3.8	0	2.3	41.39	6960	27	95.3	2460
	42.59	7360	191.7	15.99	272.67	42.89	1.5	3.8	0	2.3	42.29	7280	29	95.3	2420
	43.49	7680	183.5	11.48	266.58	43.79	0	0	0	0	43.19	7560	30	95.3	2430
    Previous logs descreened before 3" TIP
    Code:
    Saturday	23	October	2010	17:48:48:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1	Data version: 20100831									
8L0 906 018 N		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'118			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	KW	KW	KW	KW	STAMP	 /min	C	 %	 mbar

	48.83	1440	82	5.33	23.17	49.13	0	0	0	0	49.43	1640	24	95.3	1100
	49.73	1760	87.2	5.74	28.94	50.03	0	0	0	0	50.33	2040	23	95.3	1190
	50.63	2200	106.8	6.97	45.83	50.93	0	0	0	0	51.23	2440	21	95.3	1370
	51.53	2560	122.6	7.79	62.06	51.84	0	0	0	0	52.14	2800	21	95.3	1670
	52.44	2920	171.4	12.3	102.92	52.73	0	0	0	0	53.04	3240	21	77.6	2370
	53.34	3440	191.7	15.58	141.31	53.64	0	0	0	0	53.93	3680	21	81.6	2500
	54.24	3840	191.7	16.81	154.53	54.53	0	0	0	3	54.84	4120	20	83.5	2510
	55.14	4280	191.7	16.81	179.42	55.44	3	0	0	3	55.74	4560	21	82.7	2530
	56.04	4720	191.7	17.22	198.17	56.34	3	0	0	3	56.64	5000	21	83.9	2520
	56.94	5160	191.7	17.63	222.33	57.24	2.3	0	0	2.3	57.54	5440	21	85.5	2500
	57.84	5520	191.7	18.04	236.33	58.14	2.3	0	0	2.3	58.44	5760	23	89.4	2450
	58.74	5840	191.7	17.22	243.58	59.04	2.3	0	0	2.3	59.34	6040	24	95.3	2430
	59.64	6080	191.7	16.81	246.5	59.94	1.5	0	0	1.5	60.24	6240	25	95.3	2420
	60.54	6320	191.7	16.81	247.31	60.84	1.5	0	0	1.5	61.14	6480	27	95.3	2400
	61.44	6560	191.7	16.4	251.61	61.74	1.5	0	0	1.5	62.04	6760	28	95.3	2360
	62.34	6840	191.7	15.58	253.64	62.64	1.5	0	0	0.8	62.94	7040	30	95.3	2340
	63.24	7160	186.5	14.76	254.83	63.54	0.8	0	0	0.8	63.84	7360	31	95.3	2300
	64.14	7480	178.2	13.94	252.33	64.44	0.8	0	0	0.8	64.73	7240	32	0	1750
    3inch tip and screened maf
    Code:
    31	October	2010	17:49:37:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1	Data version: 20100831									
	1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													

Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'118			
	RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
TIME					TIME					TIME				
STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	KW	KW	KW	KW	STAMP	 /min	C	 %	 mbar

	30.89	1480	32.3	2.46	9.14	31.19	0	0	0	0	30.59	1520	26	0	1010
	31.79	1480	78.2	5.33	23.08	32.09	0	0	0	0	31.49	1440	26	95.3	1000
	32.69	1600	84.2	5.33	25.92	32.99	0	0	0	0	32.39	1480	24	95.3	1060
	33.59	2000	92.5	6.15	37.08	33.89	0	0	0	0	33.29	1880	23	95.3	1130
	34.49	2360	109.8	6.97	50.78	34.8	0	0	0	0	34.2	2240	21	95.3	1270
	35.39	2760	134.6	9.43	74.44	35.69	0	0	0	0	35.09	2640	21	95.3	1470
	36.29	3200	191.7	15.99	139.39	36.58	3	0	3	3	35.99	3040	21	95.3	1910
	37.18	3680	191.7	16.81	144.22	37.49	3	0	3	5.3	36.89	3520	21	82.7	2490
	38.09	4120	191.7	17.63	169.94	38.39	2.3	0	2.3	5.3	37.78	3960	20	83.9	2540
	38.99	4640	191.7	18.04	199.56	39.29	2.3	0	2.3	4.5	38.69	4480	20	82.4	2540
	39.89	5120	191.7	18.04	225.11	40.19	2.3	0	2.3	4.5	39.59	4960	20	83.5	2540
	40.79	5520	191.7	18.86	238.06	41.09	2.3	0	1.5	4.5	40.49	5400	21	84.7	2530
	41.69	5760	191.7	18.45	244.83	41.99	1.5	0	1.5	3.8	41.39	5680	21	87.8	2510
	42.59	5960	191.7	18.04	247.31	42.89	1.5	0	1.5	3.8	42.29	5920	23	93.3	2490
	43.49	6200	191.7	17.63	251.94	43.79	1.5	0	1.5	3.8	43.19	6120	24	95.3	2470
	44.39	6480	191.7	17.63	253.22	44.69	1.5	0	1.5	3	44.09	6400	25	95.3	2480
	45.29	6760	191.7	16.81	255.36	45.59	1.5	0	1.5	3	44.99	6680	27	95.3	2430
	46.19	7040	191.7	15.99	258.58	46.49	0.8	0	0.8	3	45.89	6960	27	94.9	2420
	47.09	7360	185.7	15.17	260.78	47.39	0.8	0	0.8	2.3	46.79	7240	29	95.3	2400
	47.99	6960	12.8	1.23	0	48.3	0	0	0	0	47.69	7640	30	0	2500

    rule of thumb calc applied.. airflow divide 0.8 = power
    we get 260g/s = 326bhp

    pretty damned closed to dyno all things considered

    [:D]
     
    badger5, Oct 31, 2010
    #43
  4. TURBOTOMMY

    turbotommy Forum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2006
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Newcastle upon tyne
    I'm no expert,but my money is on the adapter (on the turbo) giving most of that gain. It looks like a "trumpet" fitted to carbs/ITBS which are know to improve flow & your starting with a larger bore pipe from the off.
    When are you going to market them then? its quite a gain!
     
    turbotommy, Oct 31, 2010
    #44
  5. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    combination of the taper ad full bore maintained thru the 90 bend into the turbo I believe is what helps its flow. Most TIPs including silicon ones taper down from the MAF size and the elbow 90 bend onto the turbo intake is always smaller.

    First batch of these is in progress.. I will mod the next ones from what I have learnt from the prototype.

    regards
    bill
     
    badger5, Nov 1, 2010
    #45
  6. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    it will be a short while.. 2-3 weeks maybe
    If we can get committed orders from people, so I know how many to get made then that will help plan things.

    Now its worth mentioning this prototype was done for a car which had open cone induction kit.
    Its going to be tight on an OE airbox, but not having tried that I cant confirm how well it will fit..
    wellys S3 bung it in to check install below to show you what Io mean:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Comparison to an already good flowing silicon TIP which was what welly was running before swapping to the 3 inch jobbie
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    those who want them:

    Ball Park Prices is 2 x 76mm elbows - 35
    Billet K04 Alloy Reducing Coupler - 38.75
    Alloy Coupler with ports - 39.50
    4 x 70-90 hi-grip hose clips - 8.12

    Totals 121.37 excluding vat give or take anything I have missed which is possible.
    *should* be realistic price I think.

    Folks let me know on this please so I can plan 1st production batch.

    :thumbup:

    Spread the word on 210/225 1.8t forums if you can

    many thanks
     
    badger5, Nov 1, 2010
    #46
  7. MK21147

    mk21147 Forum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Likes Received:
    0
    Count me in, let me know when you want payment.
     
    mk21147, Nov 1, 2010
    #47
  8. NICKBISHBASHBOSCH

    NickBishBashBosch Forum Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    KENT
    Would you need to upgrade the injector's if you fit this turbo or are the standard s3/tt 225 ones good enough? if so what to?

    many thanks
     
    NickBishBashBosch, Nov 9, 2010
    #48
  9. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    yes, larger injectors were required (in preference to adding a 4bar fpr) - 550's used
     
    badger5, Nov 22, 2010
    #49
  10. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    more news on this is the hi-flow 034 Motorsport/INA manifold sadly cracked in 2 places after only 3 weeks and less than 1000 miles..
    Its now been replaced by a ported stock k04 manifold, but the power is down again as a ported k04 manifold does not flow well enough to sustain the torque..

    all somewhat dissapointing a new manifold would crack so soon and readily.

    Waiting on the new JBS cast one to become avaialble now and try again.
    TSR one looks nice, but is beyond the customers budget
     
    badger5, Nov 22, 2010
    #50
  11. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    wellys now fitted his Xs Power tubular manifold..
    WMI to come tomorrow..

    Ran it tonight to check afr's ok...
    Impressive gains.... above and beyond 034 hi-flow mani, faster spool by 400rpm, more power more torque.. and without WMI running :)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Best Number before:
    331.7bhp / 277.4lbft
    Tonights run:
    343.8bhp / 302.1lbft

    12.1bhp gain and 24.7lbft gain over and above best previous 034 ex mani

    WMI comes tomorrow..
    350+bhp within reach now.

    Well done Welly.
    fingers crossed the mani lasts. It certainly works flow wise. better spool than 034 is nice.
     
    badger5, Feb 7, 2011
    #51
  12. BYE

    bye Forum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    norfolk
    thats bloody great figures there! and those xs manis are priced perfectly aswell! another think on the sopping list lol
     
    bye, Feb 8, 2011
    #52
  13. VW_SINGH

    vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Likes Received:
    793
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Now those are pretty incredible numbers :thumbup:

    Bet that feels really nice to drive.

    Gurds
     
    vw_singh, Feb 8, 2011
    #53
  14. Matt82

    Matt82 Forum Addict

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    GTI Scene
    so whats wellys development plans after this? very impressive indeed
     
    Matt82, Feb 8, 2011
    #54
  15. MK2SP

    mk2sp Forum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    GREECE
    mk2sp, Feb 8, 2011
    #55
  16. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    thats a k03 one in that link

    k04 one is here> http://www.xspoweruk.com/k04-manifold.aspx

    now, before people jump on the band wagen, I suggest they read all of Wellys hybrid thread....
    here> http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/104103-another-hybrid-conversion-thread.html

    Previous hi-flow k04 manifold from 034 failed in 3 weeks.. so jurys very much out on how well the XS Power tubular lasts.
    It certainly glows well!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCC6W3wY0i4&feature=player_embedded
     
    badger5, Feb 9, 2011
    #56
  17. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    nr Glos
    WMI, and balancing boost with power vs egts

    next installment.. shortly.
     
    badger5, Feb 9, 2011
    #57
Page 3 of 3

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Accept Learn More...
    Dismiss Notice