KR-Throttle bodies-megasquirt-mk1

Hi all

I have been reading the threads in this post and still have some questions.

I am fitting a 16v kr with bodies into my mk1 and hoping to use MS1. I have some parts for it like a ford edis module and coil pack, a random volkswagen lamda sensor, a random vw tps and thats about it at present.

What else will I require to get the car running? I know that is a broad question but will I require any of the kr engine wiring?

The car at present doesn't have a complete wiring loom but has three seperate looms. The first one has the switch for the fuel pump, fan, starter and ignition switch. The second is for the tachometer(where do I wire that in now) oil pressure and water temp and then the third is for a basic lighting loom.

Any help would be gratefully received

 

KR itb with MS1. You need.

4 pole coil pack, from Ford Sigma, Reno or Pug.
TPS mounted on one end of throttles.
MAT ( mounted in front of throttles)
CLT use ABF 2 pin unit
Trigger wheel 60-2 or 36-1
MS cofigured to run internal ignitors for wasted spark.
Engine controller loom to be integrated to vehicle.
Calibration time, lots of it.
Lambda sensor is optional if you want to attempt to start mapping the car yourself
EDIS module not required.

 

Have a read of this its all in there.

 

I was just going to link him to your thread.

 

I'd invest more in the lambda system and upgrade it to wide-band to get more power and quicker and easier tuning.

I'd also forget the itb's which won't get you any extra power over a single tb.

 

If the system is not mapped by the owner, a wideband system is optional. The wideband sensor and its controls will not give more power per se. However I agree mounting a system permanently in the vehicle is not a bad thing. I should have been clear on the use of a lambda sensor as a 'wideband'. OldGgolfs do not have catalsyt requirements so a binary sensor is useless. ITBs will not increase max power as such but will have a dramatic effect on how the engine ramps to max torque for a given throttle opening.

 

cheers guys.

How much are wideband sensors I take it I dont require that straight away.....

Im just going to ask what is clt using abf 2 pin.....is it coolant temp????

 

About 50-60GBP just the sensor and about 150 including its wideband controller which is the gauge.

CLT=coolant temperature sensor --> yep that's it

 

I just had a car RR'd and the guy used my wideband (via the ECU -> laptop) to tune the car for max power. It would have taken much longer by looking at the exhaust gas analyser, as the Emerald ECU software was constantly telling him which speed/load site he was at and how far off he was. See cross moving around target here for a better idea:

Emerald wide-band tuning vid

 

This is what you need:

Wide band kit

It has a digital gauge so you still have two programmable analogue outputs for the ECU (wide-band and simulated narrow-band, etc), or logging. You need it straight away to get the tuning far enough so that you can drive the car safely to the RR. Without this you won't have a clue what your engine's upto, between the obvious extremes of soot out the exhaust and white plugs/burnt out valves.

 

As already said, Ryan, ITBs might not give you much extra on a stock engine, but if you plan to develop it over time (cams, headwork, higher compression) then it might make sense to start with the induction you want to stay with for the long term. Also you could get some benefit in throttle response with ITBs. With the facilities you have at your disposal, the fabrication of an ITB manifold is less of a barrier for you than it is for most folks. You'll need to build or buy (one for the boys in the composite shop?) a proper airbox and ducting to keep the ITBs quiet enough for trackday noise limits. They'll still sound great though

As the car's a pure track car, there's no worry about emissions or fuel economy. If you do decide to go for a single plenum setup in the short term, then ABF Manifold, TB, fuel rail and sensors is the way.
forward.

It's been done on an ABF now (with great results), but I'd be really interested to see what can be done with a KR on megasquirt.

 

I map cars all the time and have my own portable LM-1 kit complete with exhaust clamp, hence my statement is it optional. When cars comes with a AFR measurement system fitted then it means I do not have to get out my gear and it becomes more convenient. In my experience a lot of development should be done live and on the road pre dyno if possible. This will establish the drive feel of the vehicle. Rolls are used mostly to optimise or study issues too unsafe for the road.
I am very familiar with Emerald and many other aftermarket control systems alpha-N based systems.

 

cheers for all the replies guys. Now to convince the missus to let me spend 200 on a wideband controller

 

I was thinking the wideband sensor would wire up to your ms so you could see whats going on via your laptop ? is this not true then and would i need the controller ?

 

MS can accept a narrow-band input, but you do need a controller for a wide-band probe. The controller gives an output which simulates a narrow-band probe for MS or standard ECU.

 

I agree, but only for fueling, not ignition. Wide-band is a prerequesit for this, so i find it astonishing that you haven't made this clear, along with the worthlesness of itb's on such a setup.

 

You make it sound like ITB's on a standard engine will decrease your output? What are your experiances of ITB's on a stock KR engine? would love to know where all your negativity comes from.

 

^ I would love to know where all the power claims (from itb's alone) come from? and loss of low-down torque claims for that matter too

 

This was just my 2p based on supporting such builds like these.
A wideband is prerequisite for tuning the vehicle on the road to establish optimum fuel profile for that vehicle's engine, fuel type and components, I agree. DET cans or some other filtering method including your ears are required to tune the ignition on road. Dynos tend to come equipped with they own mixture devices so no issue there. The actual result of how the vehicle will feel after is down to expertise and knowledge of the particular engine something I do not have an issue with. For example on my own 315PS car the road calibration = 300PS peak on its first pull on the dyno. It had never seen a dyno before and would still scare most passengers. Optimisations were really done to WOT torque with boost updates that were far too unsafe to validate on public roads. As the car was mostly a development car, a permanent AFR/EGT gauge was mounted. On the opposite my Bosch M3.8.1 VR6 used my portable device for some WOT sweeps after which it was removed and the calibration was further developed on drives to and from work. This car had no improvements to be had when it last visited the dyno after some road development. In the case of this thread topic whether a lambda kit is mounted permanently or portable is optional based on the process to get the car mapped, i.e. the owner maps it ( required) or has someone comes to him (optional) or if it goes to a dyno ( should not be required) and what is in the base calibration in the first place. In MS systems depending on who supplied it and built it can come with a base debugging calibration specific to that engine hardware, that will allow you to get to the rollers and develop your WOT and some part load. Hence my statement.
My contribution to this thread was responding on the parts required to successfully itbs a VW 16v engine. Smudge has done this and added the link . Yes a std engine may not significantly benefit from the addition of itbs depending on the manifold lenghts and airbox package over a OE plenum'd unit but the response will be different as will the torque shape with some small loss in sub 4K torque and possibly a small shift in top end torque. Depending on manifold design/length/velocity stacks, these deltas may not be noticed in drive feel again based how the calibration brings out the engine torque. And yes if the engine hardware is changed to include higher compression, cams and improved exhaust system as suggested by Mike the basic configuration for the controller hardware is there already and the only update is a new calibration with the itbs this time contributing to an improment. Ultimatetly to each their own.
However my list for what is required still stands for such a modification using megasquirt.

 

The MS can also accept the 0-5v signal from the UHEGO interface.