Ok, i have tried asking this on the lupo forums but to no real avail as i am still not sure on the answers i've been given due to the fact i got no technical response, othe than "NO" The lupo 1.6 16v gti (AVY or ARC engine code i think) came with either an 02J, 02T, 02U and some others. I am interested in doing away with the standard lupo box and using something with readily available uprated parts, gear sets etc etc. The lupo guys are telling me that there is no way that something like an 02M or a corrado 02A for example etc would even bolt up? Is this correct? If it bolts up, is there anything else, that would cause an issue? Reason being, i built an FI AFH 1.4 16v that didnt like g40 clutches, would eat an 085 type box for fun and that was in 1400 form. Now that it is being rebuilt (oil pump failure) its coming back in 1600 form, with a 2860rs, custom inlet, schrick cams, 550cc inj etc and the german forums who built one before have seen 300-350bhp so i'd like a gearbox that can cope. If anyone can come to the rescue and say that it will, wont bolt up to a suitable box (recommendations of gearbox too please ) then i will abandon it all, drop the boost and stockpile 085s. Thanks
The info you give is conflicting. If the engine takes an 085 gearbox then it has a small block bellhousing bolt pattern. But you also say the Polos came with an 02J which is a large block bellhousing bolt pattern. 02J is the same as 02A in the bolt pattern. If you can clarify or put up a pic of the flywheel end of the block that would help. You do get an 02K gearbox which is based on the 020 but has dual bellhousing bolt patterns for fitting to both small and large block engines. But very questionable on whether it would handle the power you suggest.
sorry, it all made sense in my head Right, essentially ignoring the original post reguarding my original engine and anything to do with an 085 box... 1.The original engine was a genuine polo AFH block, which takes an 085 type box. 2. The lupo gti block, AVY, takes an 02 type box. This is why i want to use they lupo bottom end, to not have to use a weak 085. 3. I'd also ideally like to swap out the lupo 02J, 02T, 02U whatever box they came with as i've never seen one built to take 300bhp. Hence wanting to swap it for an 02A or such like box that has past readily available, well known throughout you gurus and with indefinite amount of ratios available. Making sense?
Hmm, but 02J and 02A are virtually the same box. Large block gearbox bolt pattern. If an 02J fits then an 02A will as well. I am not up to speed with the 02T box, do not know the bellhousing pattern for it. Link pics though and can tell by looking. Also use the search function in the transmission section for a good look around. This link to the FAQ also has pics and ratios. http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115595 TBH if an 02A or 02J fits then it will work well, it has been used many times by the 1.8T chaps.
that is the flywheel end of a lupo gti bottom end. To my knowledge they - the AVY from the lupo gti - never came with an 085 type box, so that can only be 02 type bolt pattern.
Based on what i can see on VAGCAT: the 6 speeds listed for the lupo (must have come on the AVY) are box codes GVX and GSN both with clutch housing 02T**** - The 5 speed came in 085 and 02 type. The 02 type being for they 5 speed gti i believe. The 5spd lists gearbox code EXB and GAX, both with clutch housing 02J**** Based on this will an 02A fit?
EDIT: did not see mushy's post, my comments relate to the pics above his post. Hmm, to me it looks like an 02T gearbox is sort similar to an 02A or 02J but not interchangeable with the small block bellhousing bolt pattern. It is definitely not the 085 box as that has the starter engaging with the ring gear teeth from the engine side. The pic you have put up must have the starter on the gearbox side due to teeth position. A quick ebay search turned up this box that looks lie it will fit the block in your pic. I think this is an 02T box. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-FOX-SK...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27c2261b47 The blocks lies forward when the small block is used, but canted back when the large block is fitted. Based on the above I cannot see an 02A or 02J fitting your block as they do not have dual bellhousing bolt pattern styles. I think the gearbox in the ebay link appears to have this though.
02T appears to be the odd one out then. It looks to have the same top two bolt spacing as the 085 box. That screws that plan! The FHE is the 5spd box though is it not? If indeed the 02T bell housing is different, it doesnt explain how the lupo guys have changed from the 5 speed in the gti, FHE code, to a 6 spd without any problems. Different block bolt pattern again? If so then there are 2/3 types of AVY code 1.6 16v engine. All i want is an iron, 1.6 16v block that came with an 02J clutch housing, and hope that the 02A i've got lying around will fit! It cant be too hard to ask can it?!
My thoughts were that the small block AVY lupo gti, doesnt use the 085 bolt pattern like the small blocks do, but because it uses an "02" type box, it must be a "big block 02*" gearbox fitting. Bit it appears to be different again from both 085 and big block 02!!! From what i can make out, a "proper" 02 type box for big block application, will never fit the small block, unless this is where the 02K comes in to play but i dont have one to find out. Looks like I have 3 options: 1. Turn down the boost and live with breaking the odd 085 box - circa g40 turbo power - aka, shouldnt have wasted my money on all these lovely forged and custom bits for the 16v 2. Leave the plan as it is @ 300ish bhp and never drive it because the box has shat itself for the 3rd time this week. 3. Ask the bank manager what he thinks about that sequential 085 on the berg website. Option 1 i think.
Is the GVX up to decent power though? Do they not regularly crap themselves? The whole idea of a big block 02 type box was to use something like an 02A which has proved itself and has indefinite amounts of ratios /FD's available to make it suitable for my use. Thinking back to the 02K type box that was on here a while ago, i got excited thinking that using both the small and big block bolt pattern on the one housing, i could use it on an 085 style block pattern. Thus meaning that any 085 user if they wished could do away with it, use an 02K and hopefully hybrid it with another 02 type box (not sure if anyone has done it) to end up with a decent, 085 replacement. But looking again after discovering the 02T type bellhousing, thats exactly what the 02K does. It has both the big block 02 pattern and the small block 02 pattern which appears to be the 02T type. Lost yet?
is the polo 6n2 1.6 6v engine /box the same as lupo. might be Worth asking polo owners if anyone has o2a on there's
No, they are the 085 pattern box in the polo. Same engine, different block casting. Even the same bloody engine code! The guys in germany with silly power gti turbos just get them rebuilt the whole time. Something i might have to get used to, or abandon it all based on a bloody gearbox! On a quick edit... this i the box i need information on, or atleast attempt to get something like the special clutch housing like this done to an 02A. And yes thats a genuine 1400 16v that sorg claimed to make 374bhp!
its a shame to kick it in the head. looks like they have got around it . if cant get answer , might have to get diferent boxes to see what will work/fit .
FHE box looks like its a special one, a hybrid 085/02a design. If you look at the part numbers for the internals its a mixture of 085 and 02t numbers, with a 02a style cable shift tower on top. very strange! i was hoping it would be liek the 02s where you could just fit the 02t bellhousing onto an 02a box, but this doesn't look like it is the case. I would assume the 02t parts are uprated over 085 to give it some extra strength
its just part numbers for all the bits say 02T/085, but that doesnt mean its not an 02U when in 1 piece though. part number for complete box is 02T 300 041 GX, yours for only 1243+VAT
What is the reliability of a lupo gti box though? The only reason im contemplating the hassle of changing to an 02A is so i can (hopefully!) build the box once to how i want it, and not pick up bits off the side of the road! Im verging on giving up, although im interested in how Sorg managed it in the picture above and in their kits they used to sell which was an adapter plate. Skoda used to use a 20mm adapter plate to mount their boxes to vw engines. The 1.9d AEF engine is one example. It may well be trial and error getting a flywheel that is essentially offset by that 20mm to keep everything sweet at the gearbox end. But an option surely?
What fails in the Lupo boxes? Generally on O20s it is the diff rivets or planet gears. So replacing the standard diff with an uprated LSD removes both these aspects.
