Who has a 5 speed 'box in their small engine Mk1 Golf? How have you done it? Is there a complete guide somewhere? Definitive list of parts needed? (mainly gear linkage parts) Preferably with a Polo GT gearbox as I believe this is a close ratio 'box, whereas the majority of Mk2 1.3's have a taller 5th gear/4+E. Any help appreciated as I'm sure a couple of others on this forum are looking into doing the same. Cheers.
would you need a gti steering rack as well james? ps:window lifts will be posted on monday if thats ok? my garage/house/life are a great big fekin mess at the mo...
No worries Neil, cheers I think you only need the GTI rack if you are going to fit a bigger engine 1600 or bigger, the Mk2 1.3 5 speed 'box seems to use a very similar linkage setup to what I've already got. (Dont have the money at mo to go for a bigger engine just yet ) I really want to use a Polo GT 'box, but I have been told that you have to mix and match parts from both, to which I dont know any definite parts that I would need from a Polo or how to put it together and setup. I think it might just be the selector shaft and the gearbox end pieces of the Polo parts that are needed, plus the gearbox side mount cut and shut job?
yeah,i think trd on here put a polo gt? box into a 1300 mk1... had to weld/cut/shut the mount on the end of the box. i think your right,only need the gti rack if using a gti box iirc?
Correctamundo. Here's Mikey C's cut and shut Polo GT/Golf GTI mount: From the above, if you guys are still about on this forum... Mikey C - Which bit do I need to modify/change in terms of being able to select 5th gear? jake - Did you use all of the original linkage, were you able to select 5th? What is the 'little joint bit'? Edited by: mk1 driver
I used the original lever and the rod that goes forward under the car, connecting to that was a flexible joint that has a rubber ball in a steel surround to allow the engine to flop around and not break the linkage, it connects to the short rod that sticks out of the rear of the 'box. This, as far as I could tell was the same as the polo one that was on the box when I pulled it out of the old car (polo ranger). I could have used the golf one but I dropped summat very heavy on it and it didnt look very good afterwards... I could select 5th after a bit of careful adjustment of the pinch bolt on that joint. Very happy with the 5 speed mk1. If I'd made the mount it would have been really worth while and probably a damn sight nicer all round cheers jake
hi mk1_driver, with the engine mount, weld up the two sections seen above. part on the left is the original mkj1 4 speed gearbox mount and part on the right is the bit that the bolts run through to bolt the mount to the 5 speed polo box. you will have to grind a small section away on the engine side of this to allow for the clutch cable/arm to move past. gear linkage parts reuired are the polo ball on the selector rod from the gearbox, and the polo selector which fits over this ball. bolt this up to your original gear lever rod but remove the small piece of nylon on the right hand side of the gearstick in the car. now adjust the gear selector to allow you to get all five gears. piece o pish!
Brilliant Last couple of Q's I think... Do you use the Polo clutch setup? Is this original Mk1 clutch cable ok to use? And what do you do about the rear 'box mount? Thanks.
Rear mount is fine as it is and so is the clutch cable. I dropped the whole engine and box in in one hit so used the ratty old clutch it had, when I changed it (like I should have done while it was all out on the floor ) I used the MK2 1.3 I think, but only because i had one. Swap the thrust bearing too. Easy and cheap! (and worth while)
Any other cheap and easy bits to replace? Mk2 1.3 and Polo 1.3 clutches are both 190mm, either would do I presume... (Mk1 1.3 being 180mm) All I need now is a Polo GT 'box!
everything has been answered now but i'd thought i'd post anyway, i still havn't finished mine - its a long term project cos i'm at uni and the cars at home [:^(] i got as far as getting the two bits in the pic above about the right size/shape and putting two big bolts in to hold them together so i can take it off and get them welded up. in answer to mk1 driver's question it seems you just have to take the nylon bit out of the gate, at the time i didn't think that would be enough so i butchered bits off the polo - been proved wrong now mike
Sorry Mike t_r_d - Where abouts on the Mk1 mount, (or do you mean the mounting plate on the Polo 'box?) do I need to take a bit of material off and how much? Oh and Mike, have you got any new pictures with measurements of the mount you have cut and shut? Same goes for any other people that has, or can take pics of the 'box and other components in situ...
Guys, Don't want to pour cold water on ideas, but.... I did this years ago. 5-speeder onto a 1.3. It had a 4.25 ish final drive, but the 5th was too long IMHO (longer than the standard 4th). The net result is you spend a lot of time changing from 5th down to 4th just to get half a move on, on the motorway. P155ed me off no end, and it was removed. To make the mount I took the Polo 5 speed mount, cut down the standard Golf mount, and 'merged' the two together. HTH Chris
Oh, and also I never solved why the clutch slipped under 'high stress'. I thought the bell housings were the same (084 and 085 boxes). There were lingering doubts, but because I bailed out of the 085, I never found out why. Chris
I fitted the 5 speed for the long 5th, the 4th geear ratio was about the same (give or take some) as the 4 speed and the 24mph 5th gear gave it incredible gas mileage on the motorway. As you say though it can be a lot of changing up and down when it gets a bit hilly but it does pull the car along (mk2 in this case). No gain in performance though.
Chris, are you sure you didn't put a 4+E gearbox on? Just done a few comparions with the Quaife Calculator for the Polo GT gearbox and what two 1.1/1.3 gearboxes. (Sorry about the size but it loses clarity if it goes smaller) Polo GT (AHD) 4.063 1st - 3.455 2nd - 2.087 3rd - 1.469 4th - 1.098 5th - 0.851 Mk1 1.1/1.3 (GU, GV) 4.266 1st - 3.454 2nd - 1.952 3rd - 1.250 4th - 0.719 Mk1 1.1/1.3 (QS) 4.062 1st - 3.454 2nd - 1.772 3rd - 1.037 4th - 0.800 All three were done with 195/50/15's (1808.7mm) and a max rpm of 6500. From the graph it clearly shows that the 5 speed GT gearbox is shorter than both 4 speeds gearboxes unless the above figures are incorrect somehow.
Just had a dig into the archives - the GU box was the one I originally had. From my data (references checked to copies of VW databooks) the GU has a 0.895 4th gear (rather than the 0.719 you show). 1st was as you say, but 2nd was also 2.05, 3rd was 1.35. From my calcs on 195/50/15 tyres I get (got) 98.35 mph at 6000 rpm from the GU. The 5-speed AHZ I had gave 111.4 MPH at 6000rpm in 5th. This alone shows, assuming all maths correct, that the 5th gear is longer than the GU 4th. I just remember that the driving experience was definitely irritating... Perhaps double check your GU data? 0.719 GU 4th seems like that could be Formel E. I've got a list of the 085 gear data compiled into a s/sheet - could post a link if beneficial? Regards, Chris
Hmmm, I got the ratio's I've put on from ETKA, maybe the databook you've got is more datailed as to what year got such and such ratio's or something? Seems odd. I put the ratio's you quoted into the Quaife calc and came out with the following: I dont know if I'm missing any data there, or if Quaife calculates them differently or not... I do believe the 'box I've got on (yet to verify the code) is a 3+E as I find it quite annoying having to wait to be able to change from 4th to 3rd without it screaming away! Second feels like a short ratio(or third is quite tall) as again you seem to have to wait for the right speed before engaging second otherwise it will rev a bit high, or 3rd to 2nd might be down to a duff mounting bush. I thought there might be a 5 speed 'box that has a good set of ratio's (Going from a 1.2L Nova 5 speed, I find the 4th to 3rd of the 3+E a bit annoying , 3rd however, seems to hold it's own on flowing country roads). Is there a 5 speed box that will fit the bill better than a the Polo GT, or a better set of ratio's for a 4 speed? How do your AHZ ratio's compare to the AHD ratio's I've quoted? (depending on their correctness) A link to the 085 s/sheet would be good to have a look at Chris.
