Mk1 EG Race engine advice

Discussion in '8-valve' started by gti1600project, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. gti1600project New Member

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    I am building my Mk1 into a race car, I have a 1.6 EG code engine and I'm looking for any advice from anyone with experience developing these engines. I've previously raced an alfa so the golf engine is new to me. I won't be doing the work myself so I'm looking for advice on what can be done and where to get it done.

    I know this could be endless so maybe its worth starting with advice on the head, I've read some of the threads on here, but as I say I won't be doing the work myself. I always ran standard valve sizes in the alfa, are bigger valves an option on the EG engine? Are they essential for achieving greater power?

    Any advice welcome.
     
  2. danster Forum Addict

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    What sort of budget you got? This sort of determines the plan.
    Will you be running Kjet injection?
    The EG has a flat head so limits cam choice unless valve pockets are cut in the pistons. This lowers compression though.
    There are other options depending on what you want to do.
    Do the classes you wish to compete in have any regulations that must be adhered to?
     
  3. gti1600project New Member

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    I have twin 40 dellorto's which I was planning to run, in terms of regs; engine internals are free, the engine must be original therefore I couldn't use a crossflow head or a 16v etc

    Budgetwise, I'm prepared for it to be quite costly, I'm hoping to get some good advice so I don't make any costly mistakes though!
     
  4. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    2k, 5k, 10k?
     
  5. gti1600project New Member

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    10K would be too much for me, 4-5k would have to be a maximum. But I guess it comes down to value for money and how much power gain can be achieved for that budget. I don't mind parting with the money if its worth it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  6. danster Forum Addict

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    If running carbs then the chambered head found on the 1588cc carb engine will allow a much wilder cam overlap without compromising compression or having to get valve pockets cut in pistons.
    You could get some pukka forged pistons and rods in there for that money too.
    A good head and cam will still come in under budget of 4K.

    Be careful when ordering parts as the 1588cc engine uses a lot of different parts from the later 1781cc engines.
    But could you not use an 1.8 engine to start with?
     
  7. gti1600project New Member

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    I want to stay 1.6 as it keeps me in a lower class for cars up to 1600cc, if I go for a 1.8 then I would run in the 2.0ltr class.
     
  8. danster Forum Addict

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    Yep, understand the 1.6 class limit.
    If you are bound by the block being "as fitted to a mk1", you could use the 1781 block and install a later 1.6 crank in it. This would mean you could use far more common parts.
    It is good too, as it makes an oversquare engine, 81mm bore and 77.4mm stroke.
    Here is one I prepared earlier. ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  9. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Various folk you might want to talk to, to scope out options:

    John Reed
    mr hillclimber
    Neil Walker (ex-Judd)
    Race Power
    JP Rose

    There is also a chap who races a Mk1 in Pre-93 Touring cars. The name eludes me, but it's a quick 1600. Not sure if they're steel engines.
     
  10. gti1600project New Member

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    I think the pre 93 car is Don Hughes?? Thanks for the contacts i've read some of 'mrhillclimber's' posts, and heard good things about Race Power.
     
  11. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    That's him, Don Hughes. Where are you racing?
     
  12. gti1600project New Member

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    Is this an engine you run? What are the main benefits of running this configuration?
     
  13. danster Forum Addict

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    I have built and run 1.6 engines in autocross and rallying before due to the class regs.
    Your EG engine has a 79.5mm bore and 80mm stroke. Flat "Heron" head as mentioned previously with chambered pistons. The rods at 136mm are shorter than the later ones too.
    The later engines use a larger crank pin (big end) which may be slightly heavier but more reliable at high revs. You have options of the longer 144 or 150mm rod lengths and lighter pistons. The chambered head is the real bonus as it frees up cam selection.
    Far greater choices of parts available for the later type block. Plus if you do ever decide to move up a class it can be done using most of the parts you already have.
     
  14. gti1600project New Member

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    I'll most likely run in the CSCC Future Classics which I've done before, although the CTCRC Group One Touring Cars generally fields a nice range of cars.
     
  15. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    have you seen the spiess head for sale on ebay, you wont find many better. if its still there
     
  16. gti1600project New Member

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    What does it mean when it mentions camshafts have end distributor drive, is that the same as the smallblock engines? Is that head directly compatable with my EG block?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  17. chopperoli Forum Member

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    Ah my favourite subject...

    The EG bottom ends are pretty bullet proof as standard. The rods are really strong (if a bit heavy!) , the piston pin is 22 which is 'huge'. I'd go for these forged pistons in a blueprinted bottom end, a highly worked head with big valves and ports, and a suitably wild cam (304 minimum for a race 1600 engine) perhaps H rods too
    http://ww2.bildon.com/catalog/DetailsList.cfm?ID=9180DA&Nav=6&SubNav=62

    That Speiss head will need some messing with engine ancilliarys to get it on, but yes it should fit the EG bottom end. Thinking again, it depends what the valve sizes are there for it to fit in the bore?! If you can get it on you'd be on to a winner...
     
  18. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    The Spiess head on ebay is probably Tony Barber's (tonyb on here). I can vouch for it's ability to flow air, it's the best 8v Golf head I've seen on my flowbench to date in terms of peak airflow.

    It has 41 / 36 valves, which would need checking for a small-ish 79-80mm bore, but Tony would check for you. He did have someone interested in it, but it was'nt sold as of last week.

    It would, as dan(ster) has pointed out, need big cut out's to clear both diameter & depth, but that's how a Ford (Kent) crossflow works so it'll work in a Golf engine too.

    A fairly conventional head would do the job to feed a 1600, with 40/41mm inlets.

    The last 2 1800's I've done made 190+hp, tony b's 2ltr makes 196 with a little more to come, so over 100hp/per ltr from a 1600 should'nt be too much problem, regs and budget permitting.

    The valve train is a must to get right on a hard reving engine with a radical cam.

    Forged pistons will be a must, you'll need 12:1 c.r with a 300 ish degree cam, I run 13:1+ on the 1800's with a 318 cam and a strong power band between 4-8k. Engine management would be nice to control sparks, one of my 1800's has it, my own does'nt, so it's not a must.

    Or you could do a chambered head 1600, in effect a short stroke 1800, long rods could work but would need to be custom to suit the smaller journal 1600 crank.

    Check the regs very carefully... if they say "manufactures head casting, original type valve control, original material, original number of valves"... a crossflow head "maybe" an option.

    If you want to stick with the 40's you can work back an engine spec to suit. Failing that, 45's would be needed on a good 160-165hp engine.
     
  19. gti1600project New Member

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    I was planning on sticking with 40's as I have a pair, working back as you say from using the 40's is 160bhp not achievable?

    CSCC regs are fairly loose, but I would want to stay within the 'spirit', also I would want to keep the car eligible for other classic series where regs state that cylinder heads must be as per 'original production configuration'.
     
  20. danster Forum Addict

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    Have you considered transmission options yet?

    A lot of the time, more of an improvement can be made in this area than with engine tuning alone.

    Always find it amusing that folks fit chips and cams before fitting an LSD, or optimising gear ratios. :lol:
     

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