Hi guys! I've been a member for a while on here but not really done much talking yet! I have recently bought a 16v KR mk2 and have had pretty much the worst luck you could ask for ! Oh well I still manage to love the car, even after waiting 2 months for a bottom end rebuild...I've just been thinking about modifications I would like to do to the engine, I have always wanted ITB's. My car has already had a lot of tinkering done to it (mechanic said it has a 2.1Ltr bottom end in?). What would I need parts wise to get the fueling, spark and ECU and everything else running correctly? I need to make a little list! Anyway I'm thinking about going Megasquirt but please do tell me if I'm wrong - I'm only young! My plans for this car are pretty simple I want to be able to do track days and still drive it to work - Don't really care for comfort right now. Any ideas and help would be great! or redirecting to a thread somebody has already made doing this from start to finish(I've done a lot of searching just can't find the right one) Thanks anyway! - Lee - Here's a pic of my valver, i'll get some better ones soon with my new seats in!
A sweet valver is a flying machine standard. To add TB's, ECU etc you would struggle to get it done for less than 1.5K including mapping, if you farmed the work out. The slight danger is it may not be any better than a std KR unless whoever does the job is competent and has the right parts available. Sorry to be a killjoy, but the costs I incurred 15 years ago on a full ITB system were as follows: ECU 500, software / dongles 100, harness 350, on engine transmitters 150, mapping 300, TB's 450, linkages 150, filters 100, ancills 100. plus VAT. And I did all the installation work myself. If you go ahead regardless, its a great project, you will probably learn loads. I would add a dash mounted lambda reader, so you can see how close the fuelling is. My tuppenth Jon
Get the existing engine and fuelling set up right ... if it`s not ? Good spend on the seat and belt, consider a half (rear) cage. Focus on handling - brakes - tyres.
Track car: brakes first. then tyres. proper seat then belts. cage (1st??? if you have a death wish)then suspension. then engine/box. then aero/lightening, 139hp will propel you quick enough. When you can hold the throttle flat for 70% of the track you need more power But, what do I know? Jon
- Jon Olds Thanks for your feedback I love the cars power but I just feel slightly under powered against newer cars! I know it's always going to be the case but I would like to get as much out of this engine as I can. Don't really want to go down the route of a modern engine in a classic. I don't mind throwing all of my money at my car at the minute because I don't have anything else i'd rather spend it on haha. I've looked into getting it setup at stealth, heard they are the go to people for this. I'm gonna start making a list for what I need now! i'll include a lambda reader.
- jamesa Yeah that's my plans I want to go for a drive down to stealth for the WUR mod and a setup while I save for ITB's Got 280mm brakes on the front with black diamond pads to go on, they should do for now shouldn't they? Cheers I love the seats and i'm also after a half cage for it, heard it's pretty dangerous with harnesses without one . For tyres i'm only on Uniroyal rainsports at the minute but i'm looking into semi slicks for another set of wheels.
What would you recommend for tyres? Got Sparco Sprint 5's to go in with OMP race harnesses and i'm on the hunt for a half cage now. Stuck for suspension at the minute, the car is lowered around 60mm on springs and it's pretty bad hahah I'm looking into either gaz golds or spax rsx coilovers (pretty big difference I know) but yeah! You obviously know enough .
Power to your elbow (and wallet). Let us know how you get on. Trackdays will fry the brakes, so fit expensive pads Jon
Hey Lee, There is a lot of opinion out there is there eh? Thanks for coming here on Club GTI and posting. As you can see we will try to set you down the straight and narrow by giving you some of our experiences. I can see Jon and Andrew are already giving pretty spot on tips. I can also give a few based on what I have observed over the years of owning and tuning MK2 cars. ITBs. Jon touched on it. I would only look at this step if: You were to first optimise your chassis, to be quick and safe on a track and also comfortable on a public road. Get sufficient driving time on a track to optimise your driving craft. Already optimised the engine to respond to your requests as a driver. If all have been refined to your liking and pace, and you needed perhaps to hold that gear a bit longer from one corner to the other, with torque to back up the action, then if it is feasible from a cost perspective, ITBs could help all other adjustments equal. ITBs help to change the torque character of an engine from light loads to WOT. However as the costs are high, you are probably better off going to the ABF conversion and changing the gearing. Night and day over any modified KR. For ITBs you need a standalone engine control (SEM) unit and while I helped to promote Megasquirt on this forum as a DIY control unit, if you are not motivated to get FULLY involved with it, I would suggest Emerald, DTA or OMEX as alternatives. A lambda meter is NOT essential if the car is being set up by a 3rd party on Kjet. You will not be able to see it when concentrating on driving. For auto mapping on a SEM it is essential. I have 2 sets of throttles that are pretty much plug and play and they are not fitted to my car. The reason is the tuned plenum ABF motor more than enough for now. If a 16v Golf MK2 or even an 8v is fast enough for a Golf GTI championship driver or those who race in PGTI, fitted to cars that are not allowed fancy diffs or mods, then running more power as you call it will not necessarily make you any faster on a track than you are now. And we have all been there. Faster than more modern stuff? A well set up Golf 2 16v with a full interior, can accelerate to 60 mph in 7.2 secs. And I have measured it on several vehicles just after tuning them. It really depends on how you are assessing the pace of modern stuff. While Stealth Racing is known to work on VW Golfs over the years, several members on here are just as equally skilled with these engines and do contribute on these pages. As I said you have come to the right place. Brakes tend to be down to the friction material of the pad and the heat dissipation and the condition of the fluid. Most readers just copy what has been done before with the usual '280mm set up'. For track make sure as a minimum, your brake fluid is as fresh as possible, and the pad material is a quality compound. Note some racing pad compounds are not suitable for road use. Extra retarding force also comes from the 280 or even 288 mm braking systems, along with a 23 mm 'ABS' master cylinder from a MK3 Golf. For the road, I use normal brake pads and Rainsport rubber. For track days, Carbon Lorraine RC6 pads or DS3000 pads and R888s or A048 rubber. If the track day is ****ing down with rain, the Rainsports stay on with the track pads. I can still get the RS to melt as the thread blocks move around. In the dry and above 5 deg C the tire wall is not man enough on the Rainsports and the tyres melt, hence using track tyres. I am not skilled enough as an armature track day enthusiast to benefit from slicks, so my car is not caged. My car is a multitakser so the cage is not appropriate anyway. I do not run GAZ suspension, but a BC racing set up with body roll controlled by high spring rates. The car keeps the stock ARBs for now. The next step if I do start really pushing on would be to run AST or KW3 suspension. Suspension settings are my own compromise for road and track. That is my 2p.
Dash lambda: favourite gauge. Get a misfire? Check the lambda. Pulling flat in 5th down straight, check the lambda. May well save a meltdown.... But its your 100......to spend as you like. Jon
On a heavily modified competition engine. Yes. On an optimised kjet road car, that can run 14:1 AFR at 6000+ rpm without any problems and might be used on a track day, not essential in my experience.
Thank you all for your replies! I'm making notes as I go along and if I do say anything stupid please correct me haha, I'm only 19 and still learning about everything and i'm young so i'm always going to want more power than i can use! If i'm honest I don't think a lambda sensor would be much use for me right now because I don't understand A/F ratio really... I'll look into better track orientated brake pads next time and make sure they are good for road use! Thank you for the huge reply Toyotec! I have realised that there is a lot more work to do in the handling department and pretty much everything to do with the car before I start tuning the engine and now you put it all like that it doesn't really seem like a good option for me to even bother going with itb's? I've just always loved the induction sound they make and the rawness about them Also great idea about your rainsport daily tyres and semi slick for track use, I might have to steal that ! Looking at everything right now it looks like I should have asked on here before I started doing any modifications and just following the crowd! Oh well i'm here now... Anyway for coilovers I think I might have to go for a cheaper option for now (Apprenticeship wage sucks). So to start a fresh list I should get my handling out of the way first? Coilovers Better Anti-roll bars? Better Brake pads and clean fluid semi slick tyres (for dry days on a different set of wheels) Interior partial strip (I want some luxuries) I'll keep you all updated on the stuff I do, I should probably start a mini build thread.
The 280`s (with Lucas 56 calipers ?) work well, I have not used BD pads. Pagid Fast Road pads were a good performance / price package but became discontinued, moved to a Mintex fast road pad which was not quite the same for feel ... performance was OK though.
For winter rallies when its zero degrees and greasy I have used yellow stuff also. Cheapish, but get the job done. EBC must have changed the compounds over the years, as I remember them as absolutely useless 20-30 years ago Jon
^^ the floating calipers for systems with 256 and 280 mm brake discs, are made by Lucas or Girling and have a 54 mm piston. I have not used Mintex as a track pad but have used Pagid fast road pads in the past. Pagid fast road pads were OK but today in hindsight would not use them on a track. Your description of the Mintex pad compound you used back in the day, suggests performance like a EBC yellow pad? My opinion of 'yellow stuff' = wooden. It really depends on how hard Lee can push on on track and how much feedback he requires. Road driving you do not need to brake late into a corner, hence the reason I use standard GSF OEM quality pads.
I thought 'wooden' also, but decided to give them a go, as pads are another big cost rallying. Did a tarmac rally dec 15 and another jan 16, and only used 1/3 front set in 2 events. Brakes good, no issues. On par with everybody else's, I was catching people into chicanes , on the brakes, and didn't get outbraked anywhere. Rest is std G60 with big cooling ducts. Brakes and rims got smoking hot, but that's what they are there for. Rims too hot to touch No fade, good progression (minimum locking). Overall: Very surprised, had the 'proper' pads in the spares box ready to go in if needed. Would use them again in winter, not spring/summer though Jon
Interesting comments on the more modern yellow stuff pads. With respect to a competitive event, the winter conditions limit tyre grip, so better suited to a pad compound with less feel/bite? Hence the low wear rate? Bare in mind we are talking about a 19 year old who still wishes to use his car as a road car and the odd track day.
Used most of a pair of super soft front tyres, so looks like pads will last a while. Anyway, sorry, back to thread, agreed road pads are needed if 95% miles are road. You could easily change pads at the track and back for the trip home. Or just leave road pads in and change them for a spare std set for the trip home. Wish I had had some money when I was 19! Back in the day a trackday (if they had been invented then...) would have seemed unachievable. I remember using a bit of wooden dowel to dip the petrol tank to get a better idea if I had enough juice to get to work and back till payday! Jon
