Mk2 GTi 8v Instrument panel / speedo / MFA woes

Discussion in 'Mk2' started by TheChops, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. TheChops New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi all

    I've got a bit of an issue that I'm now stumped with. Hoping one of you clever folks might be able to help me out please. I'll attempt to explain (sorry for all of the text!).

    My car is a 92 on a K Mk2 8v GTi. It's a rebuild that I've done myself and I'm very happy with the finished job. The only thing not right on the car is the MFA doesn't function. It never has in my ownership. The LCD display illuminates but there is no response when the MFA stalk / button is pushed and it will not scroll through the trip computer features, and only ever shows the clock. I've belled out the stalk itself and consider that it functions correctly based upon rubjonny's wiring diagrams (thanks rubjonny).

    So this points me towards the clocks themselves. There is no part number sticky label on the clocks anymore (there used to be as the sticky remnants are all that remain), so matching up a used set from eBay has been challenging as I have no part number for my clocks. They are 120mph / 7k rpm clocks with the cooling warning light next to the other LED's (instead of the light been integral to the coolant temp gauge). They are CE2 with just the one connector and do have the logos around the LCD for the MFA features.

    I've taken a gamble on a couple of sets of clocks from eBay over the past 12 months, but when they arrive they do not function at all in my car. I guess these could be faulty, but each seller has insisted they worked upon removal from the original car. I have observed that although the main connector is the same in physical terms (so they mechanically fit the loom in my car), the connector colour on the donor clocks has been black or blue, and my original has a green connector on the clocks. Closer inspection of the donor clocks vs mine shows that the connector pins are different in my clocks in both number and position of the pins when compared to the donor car's clocks.

    So, I continue to trawl eBay and have now found a set of clocks that match mine as far as the pins (seller has sent me a pic of this on his clocks) , connectors and 7k rpm rev counter go, but they are in kph not mph, and the seller is insistent that they are from a G60 car (mine is just an 8v). If he wanted the going rate for them then I'd take a punt on them as they're the best match to my clocks that I've seen so far, but the seller insists his clocks are rare as rocking horse $hit and as such wants £300 for them, which is a bit steep. Interestingly his part number sticky label has also been removed. I know from my first Mk2 ownership in the early 90's that I can swap the mechanical speedo clock out with my originals to get around the mph / kph mismatch issue, but my confidence in them working plug n play isn't really there yet.

    Someone else has suggested that my car been one of the last built could mean it has other parts fitted to it as VW may have been using up parts out the bin in the run out period, (a theory I can buy into but have nothing to confirm this, and it doesn't help resolve my issue, but would explain why the configuration seems odd). I believe all earth points in the car to be solid (as I've re terminated these with new soldered connectors on the loom as I've rebuilt everything), and the vac hose sucks well and is connected at the back of the clocks.

    So, can anyone please shed any light as to the pedigree and part number of my clocks so that I can try and match up a used set with part numbers on eBay, or suggest what else I can check / do to try and get the MFA working / test that it does work at all please? Any help gratefully received. Many thanks indeed. Regards, Matt
     
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Location:
    Bracknell
    Hello there. So far as I know any CE2 clock set will work on any CE2 car, including 16v, g60, 1.3, 1.6 etc the base pinout is the same for them all including the MFA stalk connections on GTI sets. There aren't many K reg cars out there, so I guess its possible they had something special...

    the difference in plug colour is normal, this did change over time but the pinout did not. could you show the differences in cluster pins on the new sets vs yours? possibly you can get the older sets working by fitting an older mk2 ce2 cluster loom or adapting your existing if there is a difference, but it would be a little odd. Sicne even a mk3 cluster loom is 95% the same just 1 pin for ignition live switched to a different source at the fusebox end and the indicator warning wiring differs since mk3 has 1 lamp per side rather than just 1 for all plus a few added wires for fancy features the mk2 clocks dont have

    I guess all the other functions on the clocks are fine, rev counter, warning lights etc, and non of these functions worked on the replacement sets?
     
    erreesse likes this.
  3. TheChops New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Likes Received:
    0

    Many thanks for getting back to me.

    I have images of my clocks to include the pin outs in the connector shared in google drive here

    Regrettably I don't have any images of the donor car clocks that I've previously tried. The other clocks I'd tried had a few LED's that lit up, but the LCD and the rev counter did nothing at all. Hence me thinking there is something weird / unique about my set up.

    If anyone has a set of clocks like mine I'd be interested in buying them?

    Cheers
     
  4. TheChops New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thought I'd offer a bit of an update on my issues here in case it helps anyone else.

    I'd previously belled out the MFA stalk to ensure the stalk switches were working correctly, and I was happy that they were. I've now taken things the next step and checked for the same inputs into the CE2 28 pin connector into the clocks themselves. This has resulted in me finding that the loom is missing 4 or 5 cables in it (from the fusebox to the clocks) for the MFA functionality. I've also established that my VDO clocks also have a motometer blue PCB on the back of them, rather than the original VDO PCB. So struggling to imagine how / why the car has ended up in this condition.

    I've quickly lashed up the negative feed from the MFA stalk into the clocks and this has enabled me to cycle through the different MFA features (mpg / temp etc). So pretty sure I can sort it from this point in (famous last words!).

    Now planning on putting the missing cables back into the loom. Does anyone know if / where I can buy the connector pins that will fit into the 28 pin connector on the clocks, and the other ends of the cables in the fusebox connectors please?

    Or, does anyone have a loom I can purchase please?

    Or, will a mk3 loom work on a Mk2 CE2?

    Many thanks
     
  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Location:
    Bracknell
    sounds like someone has swapped a non-gti clock loom in the past, I assume to fix previous wire damage. the blue foil probably done to fix previous damage as well, they will blow a track if you ever try to crank the engine over with the gearbox earth disconnected (plus the ecu as well if its a digifant) 90 spec vdo and motometer blue foils are the same so as long as its in good nick no problem

    a mk3 golf gti clock loom will work if you swap 2 pins, or you can pinch a few wires out of any mk3 loom set to add in the missing mfa wires to your mk2 loom if you prefer. sort of thing I'd nick out of scrappy, my local usually has a couple mk3s in. mk3 and 3.5 cabrio loom will work too

    sorry I didnt get back to you before, I cant look at google drive links at work and forgot all about this thread :lol:
     
  6. TheChops New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the info Rubjonny
     
  7. NateS2 Paid Member Paid Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Likes Received:
    14
    @TheChops do you have any of the other instruments remaining or did you get rid of them all when they didn't work?
     
  8. TheChops New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi. Yes I still have one set. The are 140 mph CE2 7krpm.the part number is 191 919 035 FK. They're it pretty good condition. Showing 109k miles. Can you use them?
     
  9. NateS2 Paid Member Paid Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Likes Received:
    14
  10. TheChops New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah, ok. Interesting post that you've linked.

    I quickly tried the MotoMeter Clocks in my car prior to figuring out the issues with the missing cables in the loom. At this point the MFA didn't function (but no surprise given the incomplete loom on the car), and the rev counter did not work (maybe down to the failure mode you've described in your post). In all honesty I just haven't the time or the patience these days to conduct the postmortem to that much detail (great that you do though!).

    I've managed to source the terminal pins for the Fusebox end of my loom but the pins at the clocks end I've drawn a blank on supply (as have others I believe). So just this morning ordered a Mk3 loom from eBay, so should soon have all of the bits to sort my car (or so I think at this stage, and as long as there are no other issues with my original VDO clocks).

    Once I've returned my loom to the correct spec I will be able to let you know if the spare Motometer MFA functions or not. Sure we can work someting out if you'd be intersted in purchasing them to conduct your repair and sell on (I guess that's what you're shooting for?).
    Cheers
     
  11. NateS2 Paid Member Paid Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Likes Received:
    14
    @TheChops apologies for the delayed reply!

    Thank you! And yeah if you could let me know that would be great, you've read my mind :)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice